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Author | Topic: Article: Religion and Science | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
by AdminJar
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I wonder if Tolerate is the right word. How much ignorance should be considered a "Tolerable" amount?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Tim
You may also want to research just who has appeared, stood up, in opposition to the teaching of Creationism. You'll find that a significant percentage of the folk carrying the fight are religious leaders. From a theological perspective, I feel that the science folk have let us down because they hesitate to criticize folk when Creationists fall back on playing the Religious Trump Card. It has been religious folk, folk like Bishop Sims and others that have said the Literalist viewpoint regarding Genesis is both bad science and even worse theology. It's time for everyone to put down the gloves and quit treating Ignorance in the name of Religion as something acceptable. It's not. It is time to speak up and label the folk in the Kansas school Board as Ignorant, not religious. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
How much ignorance and missinformation propagated by religion can be 'tolerated' by science? IMHO the point here is that it's not Religion propagating the misinformation, but willfully ignorant people. The idea that there is a GOD who wishes overpopulation and the suffering that will come with that is ludacrous. People who claim a religious right to promote such nonsense are just plain wrong. It is like the child saying babies are brought by the stork. Sooner or later someone needs to tell them, "I know you believe that but it's just plain wrong". Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I might try to be a tad bit more diplomatic, but this is the general idea. IMHO, that's part of the problem. Being diplomatic has brought us to the current point. Literalists simply do not understand diplomacy, it is simply seem as agreement. The only thing that may work is every time one of the really stupid ideas, a 6000 year old earth or opposition to teaching the TOE comes up is to just say "Nope. That's a wrong idea and we won't teach it to any poor child." Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In your proposed school.
If one of those students decides that the TOE is correct, that the earth is billions of years old and the universe tens of billions of years old, that there was never a Flood, how would they be graded? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So if they come to the conclusion that the world is only 6000 years old that would be graded as a right or wrong answer?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Once again you are missing the point and falling back on the classic defense that you have some right to believe that 2 + 2 = 5.
There are things that are certainly subject to belief. For example, whether or not there is a GOD and the nature of that GOD is something subject to belief. However there are other things that are factual in nature. The age of the earth and universe is factual. The earth is billions of years old and the universe is tens of billions of years old. To teach otherwise is to teach that 2 + 2 = 5. It is willful ignorance. Evolution is a fact. Mankind is simply a product of a long line of evolutionary changes. To teach otherwise is to teach 2 + 2 = 5. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
If I have to I will defend the right of parents to teach their children that 2+2=5 IF THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE. Yes. It's called willful ignorance and you have shown repeatedly that you are committed to encouraging willful ignorance. How do you justify the right to teach children that 2 + 2 = 5? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The issue is not about Home Schooling, in fact I believe that education is always dependent on the home, the public schools are simply a matter of resource sharing. The issue is whether it is moral to teach things that are simply wrong. For example, teaching that the earth and universe are only 6000 years old is simply wrong. Teaching that mankind is the result of some magic trick instead of a product of a long evolutionary history is simply wrong.
Is it right to teach children things that are factually wrong? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I would just like to point out that nowhere have I mentioned or advocated making it illegal to teach incorrect beliefs. I have not mentioned government, rules, laws or statutes TTBOMK.
I have asked how someone can in good conscience teach something that is wrong. I have said that reagrdless of what someone believes, reality determines what is right or wrong when it comes to factual material. 2 + 2 = 4. Evolution is a fact. The universe is more than 6000 years old. I ask again, how can anyone in good conscience justify teaching falsehoods? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Please point out where I have advocated turning any such decisions over to the state?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, personally I'm all for an element of fantasy in children. I see no problems with teaching any and all of the above.
There is though a difference between things that are the area of belief, and factual, practical knowledge. This thread is on religion and science. IMHO, a literalist interpretation of religion, not just Christianity although it is perhaps the greatest offender, is inimical to both learning science and the general welfare of society. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
We will always need people to fill the roles in society that don't require extensive education. Ah, like President or Senator or Congressman. I see.
I am not so convinced that it is dangerous to society as long as they are not trying to push it into govn't and schools. IMHO there is a problem. We have a problem because people indoctrinated through such systems often end up in decision making capacities, in Congress, the white House, and increasingly (by design) on school boards. Increasingly, literalists are becoming the tyrants. Look at what happened in Georgia and is going on now in Kansas. Look at the attempt to push through legislative "Student Bill of Rights". Make no mistake. Science and critical thinking are under direct attack by the Religious Fundamentalists and they are a far bigger threat than terrorist will ever be. The goal of the Christian Literalists is Mandated Ignorance. It's not their own willful ignorance, they want to force through law and legislation ignorance on every person in the world. Their methods are threefold, gain control of the school boards, gain control of local governments and gain control of the broadcast medium. They don't need to control all the media, only enough outlets so that their propaganda becomes ubiquitous. And they have that today. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Such suspiciosness would always prefer some form of state oppression to curtail the rights of those with wh Please point out where I called for state oppression. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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