Teaching the Truth in Schools

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:
No no no...we only practice the great conspiracy on our lunch breaks Quetzal...the rest of our time is spent building perpetual motion machines

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So its more like the great evilutionist pasttime then?------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

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Originally posted by John:

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:
No no no...we only practice the great conspiracy on our lunch breaks Quetzal...the rest of our time is spent building perpetual motion machines

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So its more like the great evilutionist pasttime then?

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Yes...it is our version of baseball...

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well... batter up, my friend.------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

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Originally posted by John:

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:

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Originally posted by John:

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Originally posted by Mammuthus:
No no no...we only practice the great conspiracy on our lunch breaks Quetzal...the rest of our time is spent building perpetual motion machines

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So its more like the great evilutionist pasttime then?

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Yes...it is our version of baseball...

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well... batter up, my friend.

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*****
I have been hitting homeruns all day

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LOL...well, I've been hitting at least.... not bad for someone who sucks at team sports ------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

[quote][b]There are many possible explanations that could be used in a nonreligious context (Superior alien intelligence, time travel, etc.).[/url]There is no evidence for aliens, hence this theory does not belong in science class either. Time travel falls into the same category, if not a worse category still, as there is no reason aliens can't exist, but theory suggests that time travel is impossible. I can't help but think that both options are just ad hoc components designed to wiggle out of the connection between ID and religion.

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The apathy of students today is something that desparately needs to be overcome

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Good point, but introducing unscientific garbage is not the way to overcome that apathy. [quote]I have trouble seeing that evidence discounts any possible explanation of how life came to be at this point.[/qutoe]Science is what we can prove, not what we can't disprove. There are thousands of theories that we can't disprove. We go with the ones for which we have evidence.

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low likelihood that an organism with a mutation would even survive to reproduce

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Low likelihood? Not by a lot. It happens all the time. Virtually every critter born has a mutation, and a significant number survive to reproduce.

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this doesn't discount the fact that a designer would be working from an original template and would not recreate life with every step.

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Again, science works on what we can prove, not what we can disprove. An example, I created the entire universe in a past incarnation of uber-cleopatra. Disprove it. You can't. All you can do is ask me for evidence. If I can't provide it you figure I'm insane and move on. Yet, MY STATEMENT HAS NOT BEEN DISPROVEN. Should we teach it in school as well? By your logic, we should.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

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I beg to differ with this point, most organisms are born with a variation that is preexisting within their genome.

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BS. Sorry. But it is BS. There is variation within genomes-- red hair, blue eyes, etc-- but that isn't what I said. I said that virtually every organism is born with a mutation-- a copy error-- in its DNA. With many thousands to tens of thousands of genes per organism ( humans have about 30,000 ) it is a pretty safe bet that at least one of them has a copy error. Its that simple. But you don't have to take my word for it. ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

So, it seems that you now admit that mutations occur very frequently and that the critters with the mutations survive. As for the quoted passage, this is an atypical opinion. Most people tend to agree that most mutations are pretty neutral, a few are harmful and even fewer are actually beneficial. You might note that few people dispute the idea that few mutations are helpful. It is part and parcel of the ToE, and is exactly what one would expect in the absense of some guiding force.

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Many copy errors are still not going to lead to new amino acids, let alone new proteins.

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Who said anything about a new amino acid or protein? A slight modification of existing structures is perfectly adequate for producing significant change in the organism. This has been shown repeatedly.

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The vast majority of organisms that do survive the embryo development with a mutation are weakened in the grand picture. They are producing something that is unnecessary or unuseable, at which point they are using valuable resources and weakening their position within the species. They are weeded out.

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hmmm.... sounds like natural selection.

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Even if they do develop a component that we would see as useful, the odds of it developing with proper timing or function are negligible.

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How did you calculate these odds? Did you consider that there are hundreds of billions of organisms which have been reproducing for several billion years-- and for most of that time reproducing several times a day, being bacteria-- and introducing copy errors at every turn? In short, it happens.In humans: No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoHumBenMutations.htmlIn bacteria: No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.htmlA component would not be useful except in the context of environment. Consider the nylon eating bacteria ( No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.nmsr.org/nylon.htm ). The bacteria's ancestors eat carbohydrates. The nylon bug metabolizes nylon waste, albiet poorly. But consider, nothing competes with the bacteria for nylon waste while there is stiff competition for other foods. Thus, even though the nylon metabolism is only 2% as efficient as carbohydrate metabolism, it is still advantageous.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

My reply is in a new thread, in a more appropriate Forum. EvC Forum: mutation and evolution------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com