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Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: A Closer Look at Pat Robertson | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Robertson has made a number of shrewd business deals. Probably the most lucrative was the purchase of a number of FM radio stations in the 1960s Im very confused. Is this the same Pat Robertson who was poor? I have a good job, as does my wife. I can't buy one, let alone several FM radio stations. Where did PR get the money to purchase a radio station?
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Rand, you are replying to me about a post in which I reply to Faith's saying that she won't accept any information unless it comes from a conservative site.
I assume you're CNN information is correct.I also agree that the "Bush is a child killer Satanist guy" is way outthere. I, however, don't think you have proven that Crashfrog's info is incorrect. It read to me like a listing of PR's properties and where he's spending his money.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I don't know, but whem he first went into the ministry, he was poor, very poor, from what I have heard.
As far as the timing on when it changed, I really don't know. If he came up with the money to get these stations, maybe he did it prior to going into the ministry or borrowed from his family. Why don't you or someone from your side spend even a little time investigating whether your charges and opinions have any merit?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Crash maintains the use of the planes is fraud. The CNN report indicates that the planes were paid for, or that was the claim.
It's not illegal for the non-profit org to lease it's equipment. The state did not prosecute. Crash and others are making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe PR should not have been in business with the likes of Charles Taylor. He lost over 7 million. I think that's lesson enough, and I'm not about to play God and tell the world he is a crook for making an error in judgment.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
Why don't you or someone from your side spend even a little time investigating whether your charges and opinions have any merit? What charges? I merely asked for clarification. You were saying he was very poor until he bought that radio station. All I wanted to know is, did he get the money to buy the radio station by asking his followers for cash for charities. As for investigating whether our opinions have any merit -- don't bait me into pulling in unfounded opinions of yours from other strings, it'll throw the whole thing off topic.
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Nuggin Member (Idle past 2520 days) Posts: 2965 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Joined: |
It's not illegal for the non-profit org to lease it's equipment. This is true, but you have to admit, it's pretty shady when an organization run by PR is leasing equipment to a business run by PR. That's a heck of a lot different than a church renting out the corner of it's parking lot for a cell tower.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
I think you would have to assess to what degree the business-side here profited. For instance, if PR is not making any money from the ministry, the non-profit, but is pouring money into the non-profit, then I don't think it's shady.
I don't get the impression from these reports that PR is making money off Operation Blessings.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4927 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Doing the critic's homework for them. Apparently PR and CBN do use ministry seed-money as venture capital for new businesses, but with the idea of using the businesses to pay for the ministry.
I don't see this as bad, although some are very critical of it. Consider thought the following facts from an article which is critical of the whole thing.
Robertson established a 24-hour channel that in 1992 went public as International Family Entertainment (IFE). In September 1997, Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation and Haim Saban (the creator of the "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers") acquired IFE from Robertson for a reported $1.9 billion. (According to Roth, Robertson took home $400 million, with the rest going to shareholders: "Of that," writes Roth, Robertson "received $19 million, Regent $148 million, CBN $136 million, and the Robertson Charitable Remainder Trust a trust that pays out to CBN in 2010, or at the death of either Robertson or his wife, Dede, whichever comes later $109 million.) The original Robertson/Murdoch deal called for him to continue his 700 Club perhaps in perpetuity. Several of Fox's assets, including Fox Family Channel-owner Fox Family Worldwide, were later sold to the Walt Disney Co. for between $3 and $5 billion. To this day, Robertson's 700 Club remains a fixture on the Disney owned channel. http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=13521 So he used ministry money to start the Family Channel. It became so successful the IRS insisted it not be owned by a non-profit, and PR bought the channel (250 million mentioned on other sites). Then, they took it public, and PR took home 400 million. What did he do with his 400 million? Regent, the university he founded, got $148 million CBN got $136 million $109 million went to a trust that pays out to CBN in 2010 or earlierAnd he and his son personally seem to have taken home $19 million out of the $400 million they made Oh, and he insured for the life of the channel with Fox and now Disney and whoever else buys it that CBN will be aired twice a day in perpuity. What's wrong with that? He used ministry money to start a business which had to be sold. He got investors and bought it for 250 million, according to another site, and then they went public, and it sold for 1.9 billion with PR and his son making 400 million. Rather than pocket that money, they poured over 95% of it back into the ministry, school, etc,....and kept 5% for themselves. That picture is a far cry from what some are saying about the man.
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5847 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
Not sure where you went to take a break, but you appear to have come back in a lot better shape. Welcome back, and good job.
holmes "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I haven't agreed with your reaction to Faith's posts because all she is saying is that everyone should have their day in court Well, I certainly agree that he should have his day in court. But a $35,000 donation to Virginia's AG seems to have ensured that won't happen. Maybe I'm being hypersensitive but that rubs me the wrong way.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Looks to me like someone hastily wrote an attack piece against the man. I don't see in what sense that paragraph is an attack. He is the host of the 700 Club, he does hold conservative views, he rejects the doctrine of the separation of church and state, he did call for the assassination of Hugo Chavez, and he has condemned groups he believes are "sinful." If you believe that a factual description of the man is an "atack piece", it's not clear on what basis we'll be able to move forward in a discussion. Nonetheless I'll attempt to address your posts to the best of my ability and avaliable time.
Plus, he has never advocated joining church and state I'm not sure how you would come to that conclusion. He's repeatedly rejected the idea that the church should be separate from the state, for instance in this statement:
quote: or this one:
quote: or this:
quote: I'm not certain where you're getting your information but the man does, indeed, believe that religion - excuse me, his religion - and politics should be inextricable.
Crash, did you write this yourself? The Wiki article? No. The OP? Yes, except where I have quoted sources.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
He has gotten involved in a lot of business ventures and gotten rich. I don't recall faulting him on that basis. He's rich. More power to him. I have absolutely no problem with that. But I have detailed instances where he has misused his wealth, or misused charitable donations for uncharitable purposes. Where he has committed illegal acts but been spared prosecution because of "donations" to government officials.
You seem to think Pat Robertson is a giant among evangelicals. Sorry to disappoint you, but that's not the case. You seem to forget that I was an evangelical for many, many years. While I can only speak for the community I was a part of, Pat Robertson was indeed spoken of with respect throughout our church, and in periodicals ranging from the faxed Pastor's Weekly Briefing to Focus on the Family to Citizen, all national evangelical publications. Rand he's not some fringe lunatic. He's a national figure in religious politics. He ran for president and actually beat Bush Sr. in one state. He's met with and advised the current president on many occasions. Did I assert that he speaks for all evangelicals? No, of course I did not. But he's a very vocal, very public, and unexplainably, a very well-respected figure in evangelical circles.
I'd say I'd stop giving to CBN except I don't give already. So write a letter to your cable provider and tell them you don't want to support that channel. Won't do any good, for sure, but shouldn't you at least attempt to put your money where your mouth is?
As far as allegations of fraud, the state investigated and dropped it. One state agency recommended prosecution. The AG was the one who declined to prosecute, and I've already substantiated his conflict of interest in the matter. A dropped investigation in this case is meaningless.
Basically, without an accountant and a more exact investigatio, we can't say whether the law was broken. I'm sorry but we can say that. That was the conclusion of the Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs - laws were broken. Again, the Attorney General declined to prosecute but his interests were obviously conflicted.
But frankly, I don't care too much. It's not my job to go after Pat Robertson and make him pure. If you're not interested in defending the man, you have a very curious way of demonstrating that. Nonetheless I appreciate your contribution to the thread. I hope you had a good time with your family.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You know, I never heard Bush deny he was a pedophile, child killer and drug runner. I guess he's guilty then by your logic? Bush is not the topic of this thread. Please try to stay on topic.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
So the campaign donations were given prior to any official investigation. Crash was therefore wrong to call it a bribe, as I suspected. Why? You don't believe that you can bribe someone in advance? Regardless of the timeline, recieving that kind of donation places the AG in a conflict of interest and he should have appointed an independant prosecutor.
Robertson's spokesman claims he paid for the use of the planes. Regardless, the Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs concluded that there was enough evidence of lawbreaking that they recommended prosecution. Without being able to verify that claim directly we're in a position where we have to take their word on the matter. Moreover, the spokesman asserts that Operation Blessing was refunded, but the planes weren't purchased with their money. Rather, they were purchased by the donations of OB's supporters for the express purpose of humanitarian aid to Rwanda. Were they ever used for that purpose? If not was the money refunded to the donators? If you give money to a charity for a purpose, and they don't make even a good-faith effort to apply that money to that purpose, it doesn't matter if they just keep the money or spend it on another company's business venture - they've done something unethical, don't you agree? You've made a good attempt but none of this information appears to absolve Operation Blessing. They never did deliver the aid they promised.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1495 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
For instance, if PR is not making any money from the ministry, the non-profit, but is pouring money into the non-profit, then I don't think it's shady. The business that ran the mine is a different organization than the ministry - the African Development Corporation, for which I presume Robertson is a significant shareholder. Operation Blessing bought and operated the planes to the benefit of ADC. Is he profiting from the ministry? You tell me.
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