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Author Topic:   What is the oldest religious text?
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 56 (192682)
03-19-2005 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by arachnophilia
03-19-2005 10:23 PM


you are running into the problem of pre-historic cultures that were polytheistic but did not record the faiths in texts or documents. you also have the problem of cultures ruled by {king\gods} which appear monotheistic because they do not distinguish between the leader and the empowerment of the leader. these would be regarded as cult beliefs now and not monotheisms.
and the hindu beliefs were and are anything but monotheistic ... the god of soccer moms eh?

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 8 of 56 (192690)
03-19-2005 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by pink sasquatch
03-18-2005 12:16 PM


several google sites on {date rig veda written}:
Forbidden
The conventional dates for the RV in modern scholarship place the RV between 1700 BC and 1000 BC. An example of how these dates are constructed can be found on the Indology list. Some of the argument is reproduced here.
Rig Veda - Audio download
Rig Veda (also written as Rik Veda in English) is the oldest of all Vedas. Some scholars date the Rig Veda as early as 12000 BC - 4000 B.C.
http://www.hyperhistory.com/...2/histscript1_n2/rigveda.html
The oldest written collection of texts is the Rig Veda composed in archaic Sanskrit probably between 1500 and 1200 BC.
http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Mystica/html/veda.htm
The Vedas are written in the form of hymns or mantras in an archaic form of Sanskrit. Most of these hymns are believed to have been composed around 1500 - 1000 BC, although some are believed to date back upto 5,000 years.
and from wikipedia (Rigveda - Wikipedia):
Scholars standardly date the Rig-Veda to the 2nd millennium BC on grounds of its references to late bronze age culture (horse-drawn chariots; mostly bronze, but some iron weapons) and to the assumption that Vedic culture post-dates the Indus Valley Civilisation. It is commonly held to have been completed between 1500 BC and 1200 BC.
clearly it is possible this is the oldest, but also that this is not assured.
certainly it qualifies as within the group of "oldest traditions" and certainly it was not monotheistic. this is enough to render the quote of zweemer false.
there are also ancient chinese traditions that were not monotheistic, and certainly all the native american (north and south) were not monotheistic.
one point that can be made though is that each had one bigger and badder god in charge -- one head honcho, and it is unclear from the quote whether zweemer was talking about this aspect or monotheism per se.
there is also no way to know what faiths abounded before written records were made, so to claim that all faith started in one form or another is specious speculation at best.
{added by edit}btw: I made no conscious choice on sites other than the wikipedia one and make not editorial comment on the content (or lack) of the sites -- what I was interested in was seeing what kind of consensus there was on the age, and they seem fairly consistent.
enjoy.
This message has been edited by RAZD, 03*19*2005 11:06 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 56 (192694)
03-19-2005 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nator
03-19-2005 10:45 PM


sorry for lack of clarity, I was talking about what preceeded egyptian. certainly the early egyptian religion had many gods show as you mention.
also, problem is that they can show gods but don't document the religion: the comment was about documented (a minor nit picked, eh?) faith.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 10 of 56 (192695)
03-19-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by arachnophilia
03-19-2005 10:48 PM


deal away. I was thinking more of ur.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 56 (238888)
08-31-2005 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Rahvin
08-30-2005 7:22 PM


Re: Modern Reference Encyclopedia
the "writings" on the walls of the caves in south France (Lasceaux and others) easily out-time hoaryheads universe and are consistently dated with a number of different methods.
while I don't claim they are "religious texts" (why such evidence is not mentioned before on this thread) they certainly were done by humans and they certainly disprove a "Young Earth" scenario.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 43 of 56 (239253)
08-31-2005 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Brian
08-31-2005 12:18 PM


Re: A Bible Timeline
How can 5 plus 8 equal 12?
Didn't we have a year 0, did we go from 1 BCE to 1 CE?
actually, yes. there is no year zero in this silly calendar system we have that is off by ~4 years from it's intended target (note: I agree with hoaryhead here), according to several analysises I have seen (it could be 3 and it could be 6 too) based on other known historical events (from other sources).

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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