quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
But you have to make that up to believe that. There is nothing in the Bible itself that suggests that's how it was written. It presents itself as the record of GOD's actions upon mankind. God initiated everything in the Bible, according to the Bible, so you have to disagree with the Bible to say people originated it.
i don't have to make it up. the bible doesn't present itself as a singular entity. the verses i'm sure you are referring are those that say that god's words are eternal and infallible. they do not use the words 'the holy bible'. the church history itself defines the canon as being determined at a conference. (i can't remember the name but ask anyone on the board or even your pastor.) a conference held at some ancient resort no doubt (much like the conference over the final solution heh.) where a bunch of old roman guys sat around and decided which books to keep in the bible and which to remove. have you ever heard of the apocrypha? did you know that the torah has the books in a different order and some books are either numbered differently or have more text? did you know that some sects of christianity have additional books in their bibles? did you know that these are considered mainstream sects and not cults?
the bible presents itself as a record of the interaction of a people (or two if you separate ancient christians from jews) with their god. nothing more, nothing less. perhaps god inwspired it. but did he sit down and write it himself or dictate it? no way. tell me something. do you think genesis was written by moses? do you think it was written before kings?
Gen 36:31 And these [are] the kings that reigned in the land of Edom, before there reigned any king over the children of Israel.
that says it wasn't. that simple statement says that there had to have been at least one king in israel before genesis was written. most mainstream bible scholars actually place the writting during the captivity. and that would make sense. write down a fanciful and powerful history for a people in exile that tells them that they will overcome.
proverbs and psalms by their very construction tell us that they were multiple separate books: proverbs because of what it is, a collection of sayings considered wise all squished together with even some backed up to others that directly contradict them; and psalms because of the volume titles and the different creditted authors.
also. i can't remember which (i took a class a couple semesters ago about this stuff and i've since had a math class and that takes precedent in my brain) but kings or chronicals or judges has whole chapters precisely copied from one of the others. and judges or kings (ask arachnophilia i'm getting fuzzy) suggests that deuteronomy (copy of the law) is a forgery that was conveniently discovered
right before one of the rulers decided to start 'purifying' the religious institutions.
there's plenty of evidence that it isn't a singular entity. frankly, i think that makes it a better source. but then the rampant racism and hatred and name-calling in the book makes me want to vomit from the political prowess of it (and i'm a polisci master's student). it's really one of the most politically charged books i've EVER read. read genesis then pick up the ny times. you'd never know whidh was which but for the mention of cds (unless you believe that one guy....)
i do not have to disagree with the bible... just with jim bakker. and what's so wrong with disagreeing with the bible? if my kid smarts off at me, i might smack him, but i'm not gonna let GW stone him.
quote:
You will have to explain how there could be any confusion from using the term "God" as I don't see any. It is the English term for the one and only Creator of all things. Anybody who believes in such a Being, Christian or not -- or even anybody who has heard of the idea though doesn't believe in such a Being -- should have no problem understanding it. But if you do, please explain your confusion.
just because you think there is only one god does not mean that there is only one god in the realm of philosophical discussion. since people tend to capitalize the name of the god they prefer, someone else might think you are talking about Allah instead of Elohim. or worse... think you are talking of El instead of El-shaddai. oh wait...
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 09-22-2005 12:06 AM