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Author | Topic: Who to believe , Ham or Ross? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So what's your excuse? This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-06-2005 07:04 PM
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Ah, my excuse is that I am not a woman. I am like the fabled cat that studied ornithology.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Admin Director Posts: 13032 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Schraf writes: On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, she just called me the stupidest person on EvC. But you're used to being a lightning rod. One thing discussion with Faith makes apparent is that she approaches the debate with pretty much the same attitude we do. She believes all the facts are on her side, and that once she makes us aware of those facts that we'll be persuaded. In her view, denying the obvious truth of the Bible after all the information she's provided is simply stubborn and perverse. In her eye we're just mindlessly arguing for our viewpoint even though we must know by now that it's wrong. Persuading Faith (which, let's not kid ourselves, is unlikely) is going to be a two step process. First, she's got to be convinced of the nature of true evidence. The opinion of fifty billion Christians *can* be wrong, but more importantly, it doesn't mean squat as evidence. Second, she has to be presented the evidence for geology (not evolution, since she doesn't seem actively involved in that topic right now) and be provided the means of interpreting it properly. While old rivers and streams should occasionally be preserved in the geologic column, in general erosion is like sandpaper - it smooths and levels. And we must realize that as she learns more her misconceptions will increase, not decrease as we might expect, because she's driven by the need to preserve consistency with the Biblical stories. If Faith decides to stay it should be quite an interesting battle. Faith is willing to explore the logical implications of evidence, but her innate ingenuity often finds implications we hadn't anticipated.
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I know, I know ... but I've got to post this somewhere
In Message 101 Admin posted Faith's image. I guess she (is that settled?) is asking why we don't see that sort of thing. The answer is that we do see that sort of thing, in radar images and seismic images and satellite images and borehole chains and what-not ... and these observations are obviously incompatible with a global flood. Faith's just tremendously overestimating the likelyhood of such features breaking through to view in a place like the Grand Canyon. From River Channels Buried deep in the Geologic Column, a picture of channels in Pleistocene rock:
From We've Done Rivers, Let's Do Canyons, an Eocene canyon buried a mile under the ocean floor:
(Lots more pictures and discussion at the above URLs). From Space radar image of Wadi Kufra, Libya, another buried river:
From South Africa, Namibia Diamond Deposits a look at the ancient course of the Orange River, where diamonds might be found:
From SUBSURFACE MORPHOLOGY AND GEOARCHAEOLOGY REVEALED BY SPACEBORNE AND AIRBORNE RADAR one of the first SIR-A pictures of channels just beneath the Sahara desert:
From Salt water timebombs buried terrain in eastern Australia:
Finally, from Komex Geophysics: Seismic Refraction and Reflection, another seismic of a buried channel:
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I would be cautious about the corrolaries between the U.S. and right/wrong, and also about the corrolaries between Christianity and creationism. Beyond that, I agree with you wholeheartedly about Jesus being a real person (and alive today!) and I am impressed, BTW about your presentation of knowledge from varied sources.
One thing that I need to find out, as I glance up at the topic:Who is Ham or Ross?? Seriously, though...you are tenacious, Faith!
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy writes: In regards to creationism and straight up literalism, I agree with you. The opinion of fifty billion Christians *can* be wrong, but more importantly, it doesn't mean squat as evidence. In terms of God Himself and Jesus Christ, the experience of fifty Brazilian Christians, whom we knew well, would count as something in the evidence department, would it not? I mean, is EVERYTHING empirical? By the way...before I drift us off topic, I really MUST find out who Ham and Ross are!
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
NOW I Know who Ken Ham is...I question his science.
Who is Hugh Ross?
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Hugh Ross is but another con man.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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nwr Member Posts: 6410 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Hugh Ross
Progressive Creationist Hugh Ross, who is he and what does he believe? - ChristianAnswers.Net
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Here's his home web site
Page not found - Reasons to Believe
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
jar writes: Hugh Ross is but another con man. Just curious what you base that statement on jar. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Website with a shopping cart. LOL
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
jar writes: Website with a shopping cart. LOL I know what you mean. In the end though, I think that only matters if the money raised by a ministry is for the ministry or the minister. I'm not prepared to lump him in with Benny Hinn without more knowledge about him. Everybody is entitled to my opinion.
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