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Author Topic:   Fine tuning: a discussion for the rest of us mortals
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 9 of 83 (261153)
11-18-2005 9:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
11-18-2005 5:26 PM


Planetary range
Also consider that in the early solar system the conditions on venus, earth and mars were fairly similar, enough so that any significant change in the {power\effect} of the sun could easily mean that life would have formed on the second or fourth rock.
Venus and Earth are very similar except for (1) run-away global warming on Venus has transformed it into a hot acidic atmosphere (2) run-away life on Earth has transformed it into an oxygenated atmosphere with secondary regulation mechanisms.
In fact if all the CO2 were 'liberated' the Earth could be another Venus. And there may well be some remnants of an archaic life form in the atmosphere of Venus from before the warming.(1)
We are also aware of the search for evidence of life on Mars and possibly on Titan as well.
What this really means is that the range for a life viable planet to orbit a star like the sun is much greater than the Earth's orbit +/- 10%.


(1) D. Schulze-Makuch, D.H. Grinspoon, O. Abbas, L.N. Irwin & M.A. Bullock (2004 Mar) A sulfur-based survival strategy for putative phototrophic life in the venusian atmosphere. Astrobiology vol 4 no1 p11-18. [Electronic version]. Retrieved 13Nov2005 from
http://www.liebertonline.com/...s/10.1089/153110704773600203

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 12 of 83 (261160)
11-18-2005 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by arachnophilia
11-18-2005 9:51 PM


the order of the keys on the standard keyboard (qwerty) was to slow down the typing (yes spring-loaded key linkage systems) so that the commonly used keys wouldn't get jammed at the paper\ribbon.
there are other systems that can be used that are much more efficient, but like a bad eye design this has persevered.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by arachnophilia, posted 11-18-2005 9:51 PM arachnophilia has replied

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 Message 13 by arachnophilia, posted 11-18-2005 10:49 PM RAZD has not replied
 Message 16 by randman, posted 11-19-2005 12:09 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 19 of 83 (261228)
11-19-2005 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by randman
11-19-2005 12:09 AM


dvorak
http://atri.misericordia.edu/Papers/Dvorak.php
this was available on an IBM ball for their selectrics
you can also get software to confvert your keyboard
as far as the topic goes, this supports the position that there are a number of alternative solutions for any design problem
thus having a different planet to start with would mean that the parameters of life would have to adjust to the different conditions
what we see with the early development of life on earth is that early life adapted and changed the environment and that later life took the different parameters of the new environment into account
this was the oxygen boom.
enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 50 of 83 (263573)
11-27-2005 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by JustinC
11-26-2005 10:12 PM


more to the point ... why create one that is "fine tuned" instead of one that is stable?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by JustinC, posted 11-26-2005 10:12 PM JustinC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by JustinC, posted 11-28-2005 5:54 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1431 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 52 of 83 (263893)
11-28-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by JustinC
11-28-2005 5:54 PM


Of course ... if there are mechanisms that hold a system within a fine-tuned envelope or that tend to return it to that envelope from any pertubation, but the anthropic concept is based on incredulity that it could be so arranged without outside help.
And, of course, the answer is job security.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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