What led you to God?

What an amazing dream.

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

It's not really about what I feel but rather, your decision about whether or not your life on earth actually has any significance what so ever.

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

Hello Lam, I kind of prefer Rach 2, I like the theme better. But I can downright bawl over Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Winter, passage E, "Resting by the fire in peace and contentment whilst outside the rain pours down." I have mentally expanded this into my own little scene.

edited for punctuation Again your attitude is insulting and closed minded. You think just because we do not believe in a god our liveve has no significance. Did you even read Lam's post? By read I mean do more than just look at the words. Did you even try to understand what he is saying?This message has been edited by Theodoric, 12-14-2005 09:29 PM

I talked to him about it in chat a little.

quote:

---

You think just because we do not believe in a god our liveve has no significance.

---

Wrong, I think that without God we would not have significance. This means that I think that you are significant.

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

Stop saying something like this. Everytime you say something like this, you are forcing the other person to acknowledge that god exists.

Again, you are insulting because you wont even acknowledge that my argument may have validity. The whole purpose of this thread is for you to self-glorify yourself in you love and belief of a godhead. You will not acknowledge any validity of my beliefs until I accept your argumens and decide to beleive in your god.

The purpose of the thread was not out of self gratification, but emerged out of a thought of tribal religion and God. The question was very clear, it stated the point. I'm sorry if I have defiled it. What led you to God?I wish I knew all the languages of the world.

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

Hey Brian, I was reading your responses to the origional question, and I had to respond because many of your questions I believe I have answers to. Whether you prefer to take them with salt and an open mind is up to you. It sounds like you're pretty bored and agitated with the whole "Christian" thing, but it is a very relevant suggestion for truth, and why we are the way we are, and how we got here. I myself was born and raised in a Christian home, and I did go through a time when I questioned everything I believed in, and looked to science for facts, and I questioned that perhaps God didn't exist and we are all alone.But through my questions, and the books I read, the people I talked to and the experiences I had personally with God Himself, have been so amazing that never have I felt a beauty so wonderful before in my life, and it gets better everyday.I just have one question for the above quote. You say "self-fulfilling prophecy" but isn't your prophecy "self-fulfilling" also? Your opinion in saying that Jesus is false and that God isn't real is built on your own preassumptions and is therefore also a self-fulfilling prophecy. ("Do not judge or you too will be judged" -Matthew 7:2NIV)Christians as a whole did not invent reasons to believe in God. We have a Bible that has never been proven true and has also never been scientifically proven false. If I may presume to say, you yourself are also inventing reasons to believe there is not a God, so you are caught in the same trap.It always makes me wonder as well, (if I may generalize) why Christianty has been the one "religion" or belief that has been the most persecuted. ("...and you will suffer persecution...Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life" -Revelation 2:10NIV) Is it that man has deliberatly put an emnity between himself in God? Why is that? Life never is simple, if you think about it (or if you think at all), but if you know God in a personal relationship and as your Lord and Savior, the simplicity in your life becomes so real. You'd have to believe in God to have that kind of simplicity and peace (far be it for me to make you understand - only God could do that) ("The fruit of the spirit is Love, joy, peace (ie., simplcity)..." - Galations 5:22NIV) Well, if he is a Christian, which he has clearly indicated, then he would base his beliefs on the Bible, and the combined reality of the change in his heart and soul which he has so beautifully experienced. Can you claim to understand what he is talking about? Can you claim to shove his beliefs down as false, when you yourself have not looked at every aspect and every detail of what he believes in?Read the Bible the entire way through (with an open mind; without preconceived assumptions and opinions), disregard the relious fanatics and then you can have the authority to fully grasp what he's talking about and dispute for or against it. For one thing, the Bible is the most historically accurate in terms of history and events, and it has been made from some of the oldest manuscripts.Scientists even use it to find out historical data. It has never been proven wrong. If the Old Testiment has never been proven wrong, and the teachings in it are so true to life, why not hold some faith to the accrucy of the New Testiment? What I see in you by your response here is ignorance, and bitterness. Neither of which will get you anywhere. Yes, there is pain in the world, and yes there is suffering, and children dying, but that is the world in which humans have commited themselves to living.When the first sin was committed, the world then fell and became subject to destruction, evil, horrors of a dark life, and ultimiatly death. The reason that things are so horribe in this world is becuase of man seperating himslf from God by the sin that he commits. ("...but it(world)hates me because I testify that what it does is evil." John 7:7NIV)Therefore, the world is going to be a place of suffering. It's out own fault. God doesn't like it either, in fact if you read the Bible, and read parts of the Old Testiment you would undertand a little of God's character and know that He is a compassionate God and hates to see his people suffer.He didn't like to punish the people of the Old Testiment. But it has to be that way, b/c of man's sin. For example, how best do you learn a lesson? By it being told to you, or by reaping the consequences? Most of the time, the latter is the best method used. God is purely Holy and righteous, and for us to be with Him in prefection and health, we have to be like him in Perfection. But it is impossible by our own ability. God is compassionate b/c He sent His only son, and ultimately Himself, to die a horrible death and rise again, as a sacrifice for all sins. ( For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17NIV)What greater love is there? These poor children who die everyday at least have the reasurance that they will have new bodies once in heaven. After all we are not supposed to be people of the world, b/c as children of God we are not of the world. The world is something that we have to overcome. ("...As it is, you do not belong to the world..." John 15:19NIV)If what you ask for is for God to right the world of suffering then the world should right itself of sin. There should be more Chrstians to go out onto the mission feilds and help those that they can, b/c evidently from what you have said there aren't enough of us. What are you yourself doing to help these poor people of the world who suffer? Faith also comes with action, so does love come with obedience. God cannot make us help the world. but He does need us. The reason for the downfalls of society and corruption of life has been our own fault. You can't blame God for everything.If anything, blame Him for giving you life. If the world were a perfect place and God kept the word from pain and suffering, we would not have free will. ("'I do. I am angry enough to die.' But the lord said, 'You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it, or make it grow.'" Jonah 4:10NIV) If this man's belief is a waste of time and is so false, why are you so concerned about wasting your time and responding to him in such a destructive fashion? He could be right. If Christ was the only way to eternal life, I think I would at least be wise and choose that path and get to death and find out it's false than to take it as Truth and die, then realize there is a God and then have to go to Hell b/c of unbelief. I don't think he's wasting his time. He's making a wise choice, if he values his life at all. Frankly, I believe that every person on this earth has seen the prescense of God and of His existence. One, by the moral code that was placed on ever person's heart. Two, by the creation that surrounds us all as testimony to His ausome creation and beauty. ( "The LORD has made his salvation known and revealed his righteousness to the nations." -psalm 98:2NIV)God will judge every man acording to what he has seen and heard. If someone was raised in an African Tribal village, and never even heard the word Jesus, then God as the most fair of all judges will take that into account. Therefore, it is safe to say that Chrisians will be judged more hashly, b/c of what they already know, and what they do with the information they have receievd.God will not condemen a man simply b/c he has never had the chance to hear of the gospel, or of how to obtain salvation. ("Forgive and act; deal with each man according to all he does, since you know his heart (for you alone know the hearts of all men..." - 1 Kings 8:39NIV)Also, not to argue, but why is the God of the bible the only "stupid" one? It seems as though your comment was a little predjudiced and immature. In what way is the God of the Bible "stupid?" What do you mean by "supid?" I just don't see how you can argue against Christians when you don't know God personally, you don't have all of the information, and you fail to even have some sort of courtesy to christian beliefs. For one thing, I believe that the TV show you speak of is irrelivant simply b/c it is fiction, and has not actually occured in real life. It's made up, therefore irrelivent. Can we deal with reality here? How? What do you mean by beautiful? How can life be beautiful when you have no hope for an eternal life? How can it be beautfil when you have no purpose but to fullfill you're own meaningless goals? For, since you say you don't believe in this God, then afterlife for you is nothing and therefore life itself for you is meaningless. Man has never settled for that from my experiece and observations. How do you? Wonderful question. The answer is amazing. Incredibly good. A life so full of peace and love, and is unlike anything. When I let God in my heart as a personal decision a peace washed over me; life become so simple and I saw life for what it really is. I saw the workings of Satan and it truly felt like my eyes were opened. Now, I have dedicated my life to getting closer to this Love of God and becoming one with Him in perfect communion, to serve and obey Him.On the mission feild I hope to do God's work in helping those poor, and oppressed and revealing to others this beauty of salvation in God that I have found. I have never known anything so beautful. I can understand why you don't understand becase you are blind. Blind to the beauty of the Truth, b/c you are unwilling to accept it.You want harsh reality. You want somthing to feel, to see, and to touch to beleive. That is why it says, "blessed are those who believe and have not seen." ( "Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy." 1 Peter 1:8) Death. Destruction. Hell. Pain. Darkness. Confusion. I want to be saved from this world. And I have been. Through the Cross of Christ. I was born and raised as a Christan. And I did enter the "abstract" thinking stage. I think every child does, but some more visibly than others. I questioned everything. And I came to realize that Christianity and God is the only thing that makes any sense.The bible is the only thing that has the answers to everything. I don't believe in God and Chrisianity b/c it sounds good and b/c it is akin to what I feel is easiest to belive in, or "coolest" or what fits to my personal preferences. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior and God as the Creator of the world b/c it makes sense. And ultimatly b/c of the Love and patience God has shown me personally. Are people really truly fulfilled? They go through life trying to find more highs moving through homes and jobs, and hobbies, and friends, drugs, and other highs. Always looking for something to do, alwasy looking for someone to share life with, b/c no none wants to die alone. People everywhere are constantly going from high to high, yet none of it ever lasts very long. People just keep going from one thing to another, never really fully satisfied - never really fully fulfilled.I have found that fulfillment. And I cry the tears of God when I see children starving in third world countries, people who are oppressed by their government, people who haven't found the Truth, who are blind to what could bring them eternal life. And a hope.Whatever it is that you are looking for, I pray that you find it. edited for punctuationThis message has been edited by AdminPhat, 12-20-2005 08:36 AM

---

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." -Ephesians 6:12

quote:

---

The reason that things are so horrible in this world is because of man seperating himself from God by the sin that he commits.

---

Truth resonates clearly as you profess what you know.Press the peek button to see how to quote passages more effieciently.use

quote:

---

enter the passage

---

or They both look good, I prefer the first style. Old skool

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

quote:

---

inexpressible and glorious joy."

---

I just wept when I read the peter verse. No joke. Crazy.Thanks man.

---

Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so.

Hi, Matt, and welcome. Let me give you a little tip. When you quote-mine the Bible to back up your arguments, while it may tickle your ears, it means absolutely nothing to those who don`t believe your religion. It`s like me quoting Bushman gibberish and expecting you to be impressed.
Another point to bear in mind is that many here have already made the journey from Christianity to a purer form of life and your admonitions sound like a child talking to an adult. Don`t be patronising and you may possibly learn a thing or two.edited for effectThis message has been edited by Nighttrain, 12-16-2005 03:02 AM

quote:

---

How can life be beautiful when you have no hope for an eternal life? How can it be beautfil when you have no purpose but to fullfill you're own meaningless goals? For, since you say you don't believe in this God, then afterlife for you is nothing and therefore life itself for you is meaningless.

---

Do you know what? this is the one single thing that really annoys me about christians like you. The fact that you think that because I don't believe in your god means my life is meaningless. How dare you tell me I'm meaningless because I don't bow down to an image every sunday?I'm a teacher you know, I work in a place where we work our hardest to give people a good start in life, is that meaningless?, I have 2 daughters who I will try to bring up to be good people and teach them all I know, is that meaningless? I have a beautiful woman in my life who is a spiritualist who respects my right to not believe in a god, yet I will look after her and share my life with her, is that meaningless?Life is beautiful to me because of it's finite nature, and therefore every day is a valuable experience in itself, and perhaps more beautiful than someone who is looking foward to their afterlife while spending their life on earth on their knees.To answer the op, I was led to god as a child and went to church because my family did. But I finally realized that man made up gods to explain the unexplainable, and if you have an explaination for everything and a cast iron guarantee of eternal life, coupled with forgiveness and love, then I'm not surprised it sold well. However it is amazing how those religions have repeatedly failed throughout history to live up to their own publicity.

quote:

---

..and you fail to even have some sort of courtesy to christian beliefs.

---

..and you refuse to even entertain any alternative to your world view because you simply comdemn them as wrong.

A Jesus fix is an overwhelming desire to give adulation to a first century con man for things that he never done.It is really a psychological condition where, just like the drug addict, the victim has this overwhelming desire to feed their craving. It is difficult to say which is more damaging, the hard-core drug addiction or the Jesus addiction, but both do cause long term psychological damage.Not all people who are addicted to Jesus are hopeless junkies, some are only mildly addicted. Others, such as the Pentecostals, are hopelessly lost addicts, they even have meetings where one victim will have a seizure and all the others think that there is some sort of language amid the gurgles and gasping. They are so far down the road to oblivion that they are dense enough to think that some people can translate these gurglings and gaspings into a coherent message! You should go to a Pentecostal church; you will either find it hilarious or upsetting. I found it upsettingAnyway, a Jesus fix is an overwhelming desire to worship a first century con man.Brian.

I am more worried about the 21st century con-men that I encounter. Even the colleges are full of them, although the churches also have their share! I'll go with my heart and my intuition.

---

Nature is an infinite sphere of which the center is everywhere and the circumference nowhere.
Pensées (1670)We arrive at truth, not by reason only, but also by the heart.
Pensées (1670)Heb 4:12-13-- For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
Holy Spirit--speaking through the Apostle Paul