Noah's Ark

Ok, 1. The water came from many sources, such as “The Fountians of the Great Deep Breaking Forth” Which means A: Underground water sources. Genesis 7:11 says that on the day the Flood began, there was a ”breaking up’ of the fountains, which implies a release of the water, possibly through large fissures in the ground or in the sea floor. The waters that had been held back burst forth with catastrophic consequences. B: The oceans. In their catastrophic plate tectonics model for the Flood (see What about continental drift? At http://www.answersingenesis.org ), Austin et al. have proposed that at the onset of the Flood, the ocean floor rapidly lifted up to 6,500 feet (2,000 meters) due to an increase in temperature as horizontal movement of the tectonic plates accelerated.3 This would spill the seawater onto the land and cause massive flooding”perhaps what is aptly described as the breaking up of the ”fountains of the great deep.’ And C: Volcanoes. There are many volcanic rocks interspersed between the fossil layers in the rock record”layers that were obviously deposited during Noah's Flood. So it is quite plausible that these fountains of the great deep involved a series of volcanic eruptions with prodigious amounts of water bursting up through the ground. It is interesting that up to 70 percent or more of what comes out of volcanoes today is water, often in the form of steam.
As for the Mountains, Psalm 104 suggests an answer. After the waters covered the mountains (verse 6), God rebuked them and they fled (verse 7); the mountains rose, the valleys sank down (verse 8) and God set a boundary so that they will never again cover the earth (verse 9).18, so not only did the water go down, the mountains went up to close to there current level.
The catastrophic plate tectonics model (What about continental drift? http://www.answersingenesis.org/...ersBook/continental11.asp) gives a mechanism for the deepening of the oceans and the rising of mountains at the end of the Flood. As the new ocean floors cooled, they would have become denser and sunk, allowing water to flow off the continents. Movement of the water off the continents and into the oceans would have weighed down the ocean floor and lightened the continents, resulting in the further sinking of the ocean floor, as well as upward movement of the continents.20 The deepening of the ocean basins and the rising of the continents would have resulted in more water running off the land.
The collision of the tectonic plates would have pushed up mountain ranges also, especially towards the end of the Flood.
To see a more detailed description of scientifically supported information about the water level in the flood, and rising mountain ranges, go here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/...a/AnswersBook/flood12.asp
As for all this on how Noah managed Dinosaur and all the many types on animals on the ark, if you go by what the bible said, and put 2-7 of each KIND (That means 2 felines, two equines, and yes, two dinosaurs, while they had 7 of livestock) you would only need to fit from 16,000 (The largest estimate) to 2,000 animals on the ark. Also, since adult dinosaurs of some kind were to large to fit, and would eat to much, Noah would have taken baby or juvenile dinosaurs, elephants, and other large land animals with him. I don’t think Japheth’s little sister has much to worry from a baby T-Rex, an animal even evolutionists are beginning to think was nothing more then a gaint scavenger. (By the way, as a real Velociraptor was only two feet tall, and there were only two, it really wouldn’t be much of a problem to the sheep. The rabbits however are another story.)

Ok, first, when in my post did I say anything about the firmament? In fact, the bible talks about the “Floodgates of heaven” Opening in the same verse, but as something separate from the “Fountains of the Great Deep” Which where what I was talking about. Second, why is it so absurd to believe catastrophic plate tectonics? You give me no facts to oppose it, except when you state its absurd to think that there could be a catastrophe x10000000000 larger then the south Asian tsunami. Also, if the mountains where not paused up over a short period of time during the flood, please explain to me why there are so many fossils of sea life on top of mountains, including Mt. Everest, the highest mountain in the world. Third, why do you say those culture go back that far? There own histories don’t even have written accounts going back that far. Most of the dating done for the cultures is done under the presupposition that they must go back ten thousand years (Although if one uses the bible, an account of events written by those who where there when it happened, the earth is only about 6,000 years old.) In fact, those cultures written (or drawn, in some cases) histories go back to a point after the flood would have occurred in the biblical time line. Thirdly, it would be quit easy to get the different appearances and languages from those eight people. With proper genetics and isolated descendant families, the genes for all skin colors, eye shapes, hair color, and height would be present, and would eventually create lines of people who have similar features. For example, all varieties of Syrian (also known as teddy bear) hamster in the pet trade today come from THREE individuals, a male and three females, captured in the Syria in 1931. You can look it up of you like. Now, that’s three individuals reproducing for 74 years. Imagine the outcome for 8 individuals in a couple thousand years. Fourth, if I am the one not thinking critically, why are you the one who has reduced themselves to name calling to support there beliefs?

Isaiah 40:22 (that book was written many centuries before the time of Christ) talks about the sphericity of the earth. Also, in Job 26:7 ”He suspends the Earth over nothing’. So, you say they believed in a flat earth supported by pillars, yet the account written by “Those Ancients” refutes that theory. Ok, first, please refrain from swearing, it’s not polite. Second, Yes, the cataclysmic forces that were rpesent during the flood are mind boggling to think about. But they are not as far fetched as you would have people believe.The model proposed by Baumgardner begins with a pre-flood super-continent (”Let the waters ... be gathered together into one place’ Genesis 1:9) and dense ocean floor rocks. The process starts with the cold and dense ocean floor beginning to sink into the softer, less dense mantle beneath. The friction from this movement generates heat, especially around the edges, which softens the adjacent mantle material, making it less resistant to the sinking of the ocean floor.14 The edges sink faster, dragging the rest of the ocean floor along, in conveyor belt fashion. Faster movement creates more friction and heat in the surrounding mantle, reducing its resistance further and so the ocean floor moves even faster, and so on. At its peak, this thermal runaway instability would have allowed for subduction at rates of meters-per-second. This key concept is called runaway subduction.
The sinking ocean floor would displace mantle material, starting large-scale movement throughout the entire mantle. However, as the ocean floor sank and rapidly subducted adjacent to the pre-flood super-continent’s margins, elsewhere the earth’s crust would be under such tensional stress that it would be torn apart (rifted), breaking up both the pre-flood super-continent and the ocean floor.
Thus, crustal spreading zones would rapidly extend along cracks in the ocean floor for some 6,000 miles where the splitting was occurring. Hot mantle material displaced by the subducting slabs would well up, rising to the surface along these spreading zones. On the ocean floor, this hot mantle material would vaporize copious amounts of ocean water, producing a linear geyser of superheated steam along the whole length of the spreading centers (perhaps the ”fountains of the great deep’? Genesis 7:11; 8:2). This steam would disperse, condensing in the atmosphere to fall as intense global rain (”and the flood-gates of heaven were opened’ Genesis 7:11). This could account for the rain persisting for 40 days and 40 nights (Genesis 7:12).
Baumgardner’s catastrophic plate tectonics global flood model for earth history15 is able to explain more geological data than the conventional plate tectonics model with its many millions of years. For example, rapid subduction of the pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle results in new ocean floor that is dramatically hotter, especially in its upper 60 miles, not just at spreading ridges, but everywhere. Being hotter, the new ocean floor is of lower density and therefore rises 3,000 to 6,000 feet higher than before and implies a dramatic rise in global sea level.
This higher sea level floods the continental surfaces and makes possible the deposition of large areas of sedimentary deposits on top of the normally high-standing continents. The Grand Canyon provides a spectacular window into the amazing layer-cake character of these sediment deposits that in many cases continue uninterrupted for more than 600 miles.16 Uniformitarian (”slow and gradual’) plate tectonics simply cannot account for such thick continental sediment sequences of such vast horizontal extent.
Moreover, the rapid subduction of the cooler pre-flood ocean floor into the mantle would have resulted in increased circulation of viscous fluid (note: plastic, not molten) rock within the mantle. This mantle-flow (i.e., ”stirring’ within the mantle) suddenly altered the temperatures at the core-mantle boundary, as the mantle near the core would now be significantly cooler than the adjacent core, and thus convection and heat loss from the core would be greatly accelerated. The model suggests that under these conditions of accelerated convection in the core, rapid geomagnetic reversals would have occurred. These in turn would be expressed on the earth’s surface and recorded in the so-called magnetic stripes.17 However, these would be erratic and locally patchy, laterally and at depth, just as the data indicate,18 even according to the uniformitarian scientists cited earlier.
This model provides a mechanism that explains how the plates could move relatively quickly (in a matter of a few months) over the mantle and subduct. And it predicts that little or no movement would be measurable between plates today, because the movement would have come almost to a standstill when the entire pre-flood ocean floor was subducted. From this we would also expect the trenches adjacent to subduction zones today to be filled with undisturbed late-flood and post-flood sediments, just as we observe.
Aspects of Baumgardner’s mantle modeling have been independently duplicated and thus verified by others.19 Furthermore, Baumgardner’s modeling predicts that because this thermal runaway subduction of cold ocean floor crustal slabs occurred relatively recently, during the flood (about 5,000 or so years ago), then those slabs would not have had sufficient time since to be fully assimilated into the surrounding mantle. So, evidence of the slabs above the mantle-core boundary (to which they sank) should still be found today. Indeed, evidence for such unassimilated relatively cold slabs has been found in seismic studies.20
So there you go, the forces of Noah’s flood can easily explain the rising of the mountains, lowering of the ocean floor, and the aboundance of sea life on mountains.They were pushed up, over millions of years. Everest was part of an ocean untill the indian subcontinent slammed into asia over the course of millenia. Your model has the damn thing zipping around the globe like a steam ship. It's idiotic.And if the mountains with sea life fossils on them were pushed up over millions of years, please explain how the fossils of sea life occur everywhere around the glode, from the Sahara desert to Mount Everest. You would need every body of land being under water at some point in time to explain that. Also, there are fossil “graveyards” of dinosaurs all over the earth.Ok, question one: If they actually believed the earth was set on pillars, why does the bible talk about the earth being round? A round earth wouldn’t sit in pillars.Figuratively, the pillars of the earth may design the princes of the world, the supreme rulers of it, and civil magistrates, who are sometimes called cornerstones, and the shields of the earth (Zech. 10:4, Ps 47:9) and so pillars, because they are the means of cementing, supporting, and protecting the people of the earth, and of preserving their peace and property. Likewise good men may be meant in a figurative sense, who, as they are the salt of the earth, are the pillars of it, for whose sake it was made, and is supported, and continued in being; the church is the pillar and ground of truth; and every good man is a pillar in the house of God, and especially ministers of the Gospel (see Rev. 3:12, 1Tim. 3:15, Gal 2:9, Pr 9:1).
It is clear that, in context, the reference is to the noble ones, princes, not the physical Earth. Immediately before, the context is people, and immediately after the context is also about people. It is quite clear that this is the meaning, as Gill points out (Ryrie’s Study Bible notes also say the same thing).Actauly, according to biblical dating, the flood happened in 2304 BC, that give 4,285 years for all present languages and races to come forth. Plus, since you say there is no evidence the earth is 6,000 years old, please, give me one peice of proof the earth is billions of years old. And if you need a mechanism for certain people carrying certain genetic traits to go wander off to the four corners of the globe while creating there own language and forgetting there own, I have one for you. It’s called the Tower of Babel. You see, suddenly, thousands of people suddenly would have found themselves incapable of communicating with anyone outside there extended family group. Because of fear and frustration, they would have moved away, eventually reaching there current habitations. And while your on the subject of human appearances and genetics, please explain to me that although we supposedly all come from the same group of African apes, we all don’t have dark skin and speak in African or close to African dialects. Its quit simple really.
The Bible tells us in Genesis chapter 1 that God created plants to produce seed ”after their kind’ (vv. 11, 12). God also created the animals to reproduce ”after their kind’ (vv. 20, 24, 25). ”After their/its kind’ is repeated ten times in Genesis 1, giving emphasis to the principle. And we take it for granted. When we plant a tomato seed, we don’t expect to see a geranium pop up out of the ground. Nor do we expect that our dog will give birth to kittens or that Aunt Betty, who is expecting, will bring home a chimpanzee baby from hospital! Our everyday experience confirms the truth of the Bible that things produce offspring true to their kind.
But what is a created ”kind’? And what organisms today represent the kinds God created in the beginning? The creationist scientist, Carolus Linnaeus (1707-1778), the founder of the science of taxonomy,1 tried to determine the created kinds. He defined a ”species’ as a group of organisms that could interbreed among themselves, but not with another group, akin to the Genesis concept.
So, on the ark, there would be 2 canines, 2 felines, 2 equines, 2 ursines, 7 sheep, 7 goats, 2 baby diplodocid dinosaurs, 2 baby large carnivorous dinosaurs similar to T-rexes, ect.The scenario gets wilder the longer you stay with Yecism. Massive quantities of boiling water released from the 'deeps', cooking everything. Wild storms on the surface as a barge tries to stay upright. Huge icebergs liberated and sailing round the globe. Thousands of feet of sediment being deposited in orderly fashion with the heaviest elements on top. Massive quantities of water disappearing to where? Then continents shuttling around like speedboats, carrying short lists of life peculiar to each continent. Finally comes the rain of meteor impacts, not just singles, but swarms, leaving huge craters and throwing immense amounts of dust and vaporized rock high into the atmosphere and bringing on repeated nuclear winters. Mankind must have slept through this as no record survives except a censored version in the Bible.Ok, first, I’m not sure how you can truthfully say there are no surviving records, as there are 272 different stories of a worldwide flood, present in every culture from Australian aborigines to Aztecs. In fact, heres the Aztec version of Noah’s flood, complete with there own version of Babel.'When mankind were overwhelmed with the deluge, none were preserved but a man named Coxcox . and a woman called Xochiquetzal, who saved themselves in a little bark, and having afterwards got to land upon a mountain called by them Colhuacan, had there a great many children; ... these children were all born dumb, until a dove from a lofty tree imparted to them languages, but differing so much that they could not understand one another.'
Also, Evidence indicates that the continents have moved apart in the past, but can today’s supposed drift rates of 0.78-5.9 inches [ 1.98 to 14.99 centimeters] per year be extrapolated far back into the past? Is the present really the key to the past, as uniformitarians earnestly proclaim? Such extrapolation would mean that an ocean basin or mountain range would take about 100 million years to form.
The Bible does not speak directly about continental drift and plate tectonics, but if the continents were once together, as Genesis 1:9-10 suggests, and are now apart, how does that fit into a biblical view of geology with a time line of only thousands of years?11
Dr John Baumgardner, working at the Los Alamos National Laboratories (New Mexico, USA), has used supercomputers to model processes in the earth’s mantle to show that tectonic plate movement could have occurred very rapidly, and ”spontaneously.’12 This concept is known as catastrophic plate tectonics. At the time of writing, Baumgardner, a creation scientist, is acknowledged as having developed the world’s best 3-D super-computer model of plate tectonics.13
(You can find a very detailed report on how this is possible here: http://www.answersingenesis.org/...ersBook/continental11.asp it’s must to large to post here. If you do nothing else, just read it and try to think critically.) You want me to explain it to you in a flood scenario? Well, as you wish.Mt Everest is almost 9 km (5.5 miles) high. How, then, could the Flood have covered ”all the high hills under the whole heaven’?
The Bible refers only to ”high hills,’ and the mountains today were formed only towards the end of, and after, the Flood by collision of the tectonic plates and the associated upthrusting. In support of this, the layers that form the uppermost parts of Mt Everest are themselves composed of fossil-bearing, water-deposited layers.
This uplift of the new continental land-masses from under the Flood waters would have meant that, as the mountains rose and the valleys sank, the waters would have rapidly drained off the newly emerging land surfaces. The collapse of natural dams holding back the floodwaters on the land would also have caused catastrophic flooding. Such rapid movement of large volumes of water would have caused extensive erosion and shaped the basic features of today’s Earth surface.
Thus it is not hard to envisage the rapid carving of the landscape features that we see on the earth today, including places such as the Grand Canyon of the USA. The present shape of Uluru (Ayers Rock), a sandstone monolith in central Australia, is the result of erosion, following tilting and uplift, of previously horizontal beds of water-laid sand. The feldspar-rich sand that makes up Uluru must have been deposited very quickly and recently. Long-distance transport of the sand would have caused the grains to be rounded and sorted, whereas they are jagged and unsorted. If they had sat accumulating slowly in a lake bed drying in the sun over eons of time, which is the story told in the geological display at the park center, the feldspar would have weathered into clay. Likewise, if Uluru had sat in the once-humid area of central Australia for millions of years, it would have weathered to clay.21 Similarly, the nearby Kata Tjuta (The Olgas) are composed of an unsorted mixture of large boulders, sand and mud, indicating that the material must have been transported and deposited very rapidly.
Receding floodwaters eroded the land, creating river valleys. This explains why rivers are often so much smaller than the valleys they flow in today”they did not carve the valleys. The water flow that carved out the river valleys must have been far greater than the volume of water we see flowing in the rivers today. This is consistent with voluminous Flood waters draining off the emerging land surfaces at the close of Noah’s Flood, and flowing into the rapidly sinking, newly prepared, deep ocean basins.
Our understanding of how the Flood could have occurred is continually developing. Ideas come and go, but the fact of the Flood remains. Genesis clearly testifies to it, Jesus and the Apostles confirmed it, and there is abundant global geological evidence for a global watery cataclysm.

Moles would be Talpidae (That in includes moles, mole shrews, and others). Dogs of course belong to the Canine family, along with wolves, foxes, dingoes, and African hunting dogs, all of which would come from a single pair of canines on the ark. As for boundaries of the oceans, that’s right in Genesis 1:6-7“And God said, ”Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water’ So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it.” Any guess’s what is being made?Also, you say there is no evidence for a worldwide flood. Please then, take your time and explain how, without a worldwide flood, there can be A: Fossil sea life on mountains, some found with fossils of land plants. B: How mass graves of dinosaurs exist all over the world, many of which even evolutionists say drown in a flood. C: How unfossilized dinosaur bones can still exist. If they died 65 million years ago, there bones should be ether completely fossilized or dust by now. D: How so many water carved features exist all over the globe (ex. Devils Tower, Columbia River basin, Grand canyon.) Oh, and be sure to go into detail.And, if the story of Noah’s Flood wasn’t in the bible, but I knew the geological information that I do now, I would still believe it. I can’t say I don’t believe in Noah’s Flood after taking geology.

It’s really quit simple to explain the how the star nosed mole came to be. At least it is for creationists, evolutionists can’t even show how a mole could have evolved, or even a transitional form. Anyway, the star nosed mole would have come about after leaving the ark. The pair (Or pair and offspring) that left the ark would have all the genetic information to become all the subspecies of moles. Over the next several thousand years, the moles bred and spread out, and the ones carrying genes for star noses bred star nosed babys, and the ones for short noses bred short babies and so on and so forth, until you have the mole species that are present today. All moles have very sensitive noses. It’s true, only the star mole has that odd little star on the end of his. However, there are many different kind of noses on moles. Short, long, star, and others are all present in the species.And if the old testament has no concept of the shape of the world, why is it described as a cirle? Your model is flat. Also, the word raqiya which is used in old testament does not mean “Solid Sky”. One can only say it does mean that by assuming the sky is solid in the first place. The “expanse between waters” is the atmosphere!Yes, you did tell me the sea life fossils would have gotten on top of the mountains when the mountain’s rose from beneath the sea. What you do not seem to want to tell me is how land plant fossils got into the same level or lower then the sea life fossils. If we take the geological column as accurate (When is fact the layers do not exist anywhere on earth) Then the plants must have been on the mountain before the fish. So, if the mountains built up from under water, where did the plants come from?Also, for those who requested information on Unfossilized dinosaur bones, they can be found in the Liscomb Bone Bed in northern Alaska. In fact, when it was first discovered, the people thought they must have been frozen Bison or Mammoth bones. After all, unfossilized dinosaur bones are an impossibility right? But why don’t I let someone who has been there talk about it. As for the dinosaur graveyards, I did quit a bit of checking, using both creationists and evolutionist sites. Here is what I found: As for your Ashfall fossil beds in Nebraska, the explanation is quit simple, that volcanic eruption happened after the flood (Not 10 millions years ago) and after the Dinosaurs died out. And if Dinosaurs did not live with humans, or even in a time anywhere near the time humans walked the earth, why does the bible describe a dinosaur like creature, and why have cave paintings of dinosaurs been found?Oh, as for your lovely little math problems, you made a few mistakes. 1. You left in all species that live underwater. They wouldn’t have been on the ark. 2. Insects would not have counted among the kinds of animals that came onto the ark in 2’s or 7’s. The words used in genesis, behemah or remes, does not include insects, so as many of them as had wanted would have come aboard.So, using wikipedia, I counted all the species of insects, and species that lived underwater. Then I subtracted the lower numbers of the species (When they said the number of species was in between some number and suome number of species) and subtracted it from your 1.7 million species. I was left with 472,000 species. Do the math again.And you can choose to believe me or not believe me, the choice is yours. I believe in a worldwide flood because I have seen nothing in my study of geology that disproves it. However, I have seen things that Disprove Icarus, such as a guy on TV that actauly made wings of bird feathers and tried to fly. xD it was pretty funny.

We are seeing it today, check it out:
Missing Link | Answers in Genesis If you need references for marine fish fossils and fossils of plants on found on land, try here: Uniformitarian Paleo-Environmental Dilemma at Clarkia, Idaho | Answers in Genesis Actauly, I got it from the book: The Great Alaskan Dinosaur adventure, and http://www.answersingenesis,org, not off the other sites. Also, if all the fossils are ether mamooth/mastodon, or highly mineralized, how come the Journal of Paleontology said this after they tested several positively identified HADROSAURIDAE, ORNITHISCHIA fossils that where found in that same place from the top layers: That’s simple, the rhino didn’t swim, it walked. Even evolutionists acknowledge that men and animals could once freely cross the Bering Strait, which separates Asia and the Americas. Also, there are two explanations for the lack of fossil humans in the ashfall beds. One: They had an early warning and left. 2: They hadn’t gotten there yet. Noah’s decedents disobeyed Gods commands to spread out over the earth. Instead, they stuck around the general area where they were, and decided to build the tower of babel. They never finished though because God intervened and scrambled there languages. All this may have taken as much as a couple hundred years. So the humans would have gotten to the Americas at least a hundred years after the animals, who started breeding and spreading out right away.Aslo, there are no bones of predators in the ash beds, even though the bones show signs they must have been there at one point, so not everything that lived in the area died and became fossils. *Claps hands* Yay! Insults! Imagination huh? Well, apparently this guy who lived in White River Canyon Utah a couple thousand years ago had the same imagination. A rather accurate imagination for someone who should never have seen a dinosaur, and yet managed to draw a rather nice sauropod. The insects where on the ark, they just didn’t have a limite on how many of each kind could come aboard. Also, please tell me why fish, coral, and all other forms of sea life wouldn’t have survived a flood. Coral has even adapted to live in dark cold waters of the abyss, so why not a flood? I also happen to belive, not just because there is not evidence to disprove it, but because I have seen plenty of evidence to support it. And in case you haven’t realized this yet, both Creationists and Evolutionists work using the same evidence. Its just a matter of what presuppositions we use to interpret the evidence that results in two different interpretations. Ok then, lets work with your theory. First, show me fossils of your genetically superior bird, and of your genetically superior honey bees. (Although, if they were superior, why are they extinct?) Oh, and while you are at it, show me remains of animals that were adapted to an environment of more viscous air and weaker gravity. I also need to see some accounts from other cultures that show the longer days and nights that would have resulted from a slower spinning earth. Go ahead, I’m waiting. *Sits back and Hums “God Bless ye Merry Gentlemen” while she waits* No, the point was to illustrate just a few of the many fossil graveyards that are the result of a flood, the unfossilized bones are in Alaska. And of course there unique to Australia, the animals that where fossilized are unique to Australia, and since fossilization is rare, you would only find the fossils in there habitat, not on there migration routes,

First, since you insist on calling AIG names I guess I’ll make this post using other sources. (Although, why is it the worst you can do about AIG is call them liars? You think if they were that bad you could post come contradictory information.)First, the original “Kind” Noah brought on the ark was nether mouse nor capybara, it would most likely resemble a squirrel. (In fact, if you look up rodents on wikipedia, it will tell you the earliest rodents were squirrel like.) And capybara’s are very similar to other rodent species, such as cavies and beavers, and have many biological similarities to those mice, they simply have a few larger differences from them then from others, such as lack of tail, longer legs, and a larger size. Also, you posting a picture of mice and a capybara and asking me to explain how one became the other is like me posting a picture of a Great Dane and a Cairn Terrier and asking you how one evolved into the other. One didn’t become the other, they just had the same ancestors.Also, your 3,000 rodent species is the highest end of the species spectrum I found. The numbers I found said there where between 1500-3000 rodent species. With 2000 being the median. Also, how that many species got her in 4000 years is quit easy to explain. Rodents breed like crazy, and the more offspring an animal produces, the more chances there are for genetic variation to create a new subspecies/species. (Such as dwarf hamsters and Syrian Hamsters.) Well, my problem is that if the mountains were underwater before the where raised up, how did land plant fossils get under and with fish fossils? And the article I posted before have tree leaf fossils, fish fossils, and sea life fossils all in the same place. If you want links to places with seas and freshwater fish, land plants, and other species all on mountains/hills, try these:Geoscience Research Institute | I think we need more research on that...http://www2.nature.nps.gov/geology/parks/fobu/ Now this is what I love about Evolution. Ever ten or twenty years, you throw all evidence that doesn’t agree with your new theories out the window and come up with new evidence. So, tested fossils of dinosaur that show that it wasn’t highly mineralized are wrong because there old, but new tests on different bones (Found at lower levels then the originals, which the site for the fossil beds admit.) are right because there newer? (And of course don’t upset evolutionary theories.) Here are more links about unfossilized dinosaur bones:
http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/index.php?title=Unfossiliz...Page not found | Genesis Park Here are two sites you need to see. The first is a news article about a “Stone Age” Tribe
That survived the tsunami. So, if “Stone Age” Tribes now days can avoid tsunami’s, why couldn’t ancient tribes with the same level of technology avoid a volcanic eruption? The second is a site with evidence for my Tower of Babel theory.MSN | Outlook, Office, Skype, Bing, Breaking News, and Latest VideosTOWER OF BABEL - Is there archaeological evidence of the Tower of Babel? - ChristianAnswers.NetAnd, if you started with just one pair of rhinos, and every female gave birth to a female calf at least every fourth year, you could have two to the twenty-fifth power (33,554,432) females, not counting males, in only 100 years. As for the evidence for no fossils of predators being found in the ashfall fossil beds, just look at your own link:Ashfall Fossil Beds - WikipediaIt says right there that some bones show bite marks from predators, but no predator remains have been found.Also, before branding the cave paintings of dinosaurs as all fakes, there are some sites you should see. The first gives information on the different ancient dinosaur art, the second it an article about spines being found on certain sauroped species. Species already depicted having those spines on several thousand year old art that are called “Fakes” Because some people got the idea to make more to sell. Also, the posture of the tail doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a fake, it just means whoever painted it really needs art lessons.Ancient Dinosaur Depictions | Genesis Park shortenI found some very excellent information on how fish and coral would have survived the flood, here it is: How did fish survive the Flood? - ChristianAnswers.Net Odd, that’s the answer I always seem to get when arguing with evolutionists, “Creationists lie, the bible contradicts itself, your wrong, your brainwashed.” Yet, I never get them to say where they lied, twisted facts, or where the bible contradicts itself.As for evolutionists twisting facts . .. Well, I won’t get into that. *Cough* Piltdown Man *Cough* Now THAT’S the difference between Noah’s ark and the Icarus myth. I have shown you fossilized animals that drowned in the flood. I showed you other accounts of a worldwide flood. And I showed you geological evidence for the flood. That’s what makes it different, evidence. And that’s why I believe in Noah’s Flood, and why I don’t believe in the myth of Icarus, or evolution. Because there entire theory uses transitions from one species (Such as canines) to another (Such as dolphins) that is based without fossil evidence of the transition. And “Biblical transitional fossils” would be (and are) put down under “Extinct fossil species” As they would have only small bits of variation between individuals (such as slightly longer or shorter extremities), and wouldn’t suddenly gain genetic information, which is what evolution needs to happen. I know, I ask for insults whenever I debate evolutionists. Its quit fascinating really, usually when your debating people, they start insulting you and your theories when you make them angry and hit a nerve, challenge something they don’t want challenged, make them squirm and doubt what they say. Yet I haven’t called anyone names, gotten angry, or sworn, yet you ask me how I can believe what I do. Makes you wonder don’t it?This message has been edited by AdminJar, 12-20-2005 11:18 PM

As far as the article you posted, I found it to be an interesting illustration about how things adapt to different environments, but not the sort of 1 new rodent species a year we would see if the Flood story happened. The proposition is absurd, and there is no evidence for it.Really? That’s odd. I found this lovely news story here: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/...494%255E1702,00.htmlIt’s about a new species rodent species found in a meat market. Heres a line I found interesting: So wait, it’s not possible to get one new rodent species a year, yet we are finding a new species a year now? Something doesn’t add up. I said Squirrel-like, not squirrels. There is a difference, and I got that from an evolutionary source. No, as you said, we have 3,000 years to get a capybara. Plus you know, beavers and other aquatic rodents have those same features. Also, the order rodentia has less natural variability then what has been isolated by dog breeders. They haven’t had nearly as long to do that. Many species of mouse for instance, look incredibly similar, even though they live at opposite sides of the globe. They only have slight differences, such as the amount of fur on there tails, size, and ear shape. Each of which is quit easy to get in a short amount of time with genetic variation. Yes, rodents are different species, not breeds. But, if you found a population of Great Danes in on area, and of Cairn Terriers in another, without knowing of there common ancestry, would you call them different species, or different breeds? Also, dogs are already a separate species from wolves, and although not yet genetically different to a significant degree, if you gave them 3,000 years to develop the genetic differences, they would get them. Also, as I have already stated, there is more natural variation in dogs then in rodents. And we do get a new species of rodent per year. And again, squirrel-like, not squirrel, plus they are not breeds of squirrel, they are breeds of rodent. Wait, you just told me the mountains were under the ocean to get the marine fossils on them, now its a few feet of water in a swamp. Please tell me, which is it? Because last I checked, the ocean wasn’t a few feet deep or a swamp. Actually, if the evidence doesn’t go with the theory, the theory is thrown out, not the evidence. Yet numerous ape-men fossils are thrown out, but we still must have evolved from apes. Further testing of different bones found in deeper layers showed that those bones were not fossilized. Buddies bones dug up in upper layers haven’t been submitted to any EVOLUTIONARY scientists. Creation scientists have seen them, and they confirm that they are A: Dinosaur bones and B: Unfossilized and unmineralized. For further reference, try here:
http://www.nwcreation.net/wiki/index.php?title=Unfossiliz... Many stone-age area tribes live and have lived around active volcanoes. Cowlitz Indian tribe in Washington USA has lived in the area of two active volcanoes Mt Saint Helens and Mt. Rainer for most of there history, yet in all there history there is no story of anyone being killed in a volcanic eruption, even though they have recorded many eruptions themselves. Also, they could “Outrun” the volcanic blast if they left days before it happened. Volcanoes usually give of signs of eruptions long before they erupt, such as earthquakes around the base, bulges of the mountainside, and animals have been known to flee hours before it erupts. When your life depends on knowing if something if a volcano will erupt soon, you pay attention. First, it would be two rhinos, not seven. Rhinos are hard to bred in captivity, in the wild they bred fine. There endangered because humans poached many of them, and continue to poach them. If you still have a problem take away 50% of the population, or even 75% of that number, that’s still more then enough. Actually, I have maintained several fresh water tanks. Once several years ago, I got a group of three fancy guppies, (Two female, one male) and put them in my freshwater tank with three Zebra Danios, a catfish, and a Siamese fighting fish. Well, I loved up sites on live bearers on the net. They all said guppies should be in brackish water. So, me being a little aquarium dumb at the time, I put several spoonfuls of salt into the twenty gallon tank. All the fish, even though all but the guppies were strictly freshwater, were absolutely fine.
Here are two articles with a more in depth explanation of how freshwater fish and saltwater fish could have survived the flood:
Missing Link | Answers in Genesis
How Did Fish Survive Noah’s Flood? | Answers in Genesis Ass to your comparing the salt water content to Icarus’s thicker air, the waters during the flood would have had less salt, as all freshwater in the world would have been emptied into it. And as the articles I showed you say, many fish and other marine species can tolerate less salty, or even fresh water, and many fresh water species can adapt to salt water.
And no, not all fish back then would have survived. Over 90% of all fossils are marine life. And please tell me, how would mudslides after fish in the open ocean? The mud would have dispersed long before reaching them. Plus, fish from shallower areas would have had ample time to swim away from mud flows. And yes, coral reefs would have been buried by mud and broken up in earthquakes. But the coral polyps could have survived floating in the open waters outside of there coral skeletons. Then, after the waters subsided, built the reefs. 1) Ok, one last time, I will define “Kind” To you.
But what is a created ”kind’? And what organisms today represent the kinds God created in the beginning? The creationist scientist, Carolus Linnaeus (1707-1778), the founder of the science of taxonomy,1 tried to determine the created kinds. He defined a ”species’ as a group of organisms that could interbreed among themselves, but not with another group, akin to the Genesis concept.
Zonkeys, Ligers, and Wolphins, Oh My! | Answers in Genesis
There you go, there is your definition of kind. You can read the article to see the whole explanation. So basically, since horses can breed with donkeys, they are of the same kind. The same goes for tigers and lions, Llamas and Camels, ect. I will go further into proof of kinds in a moment.2) Uh, you mixed question one: “Where did the water go” with a possible answer to: “Where did the water come from” Therefor, it is not a creationist lie, as it is a mix of a question and answer to different question.3) That was a joke made about since our DNA is 98% similar to a chimps, evolutionist say they are our relatives/ancestors. And then since we share half our genes with bananas, by the same reasoning, where half banana! This was a joke people, they shouldn’t be taken as facts or lies.4) Odd, every time someone brings one up, I have been able to disprove it, and show a quote from an evolutionary scientist that agrees its not really a transitional form.Ok, after seeing the “Creationists Lies” I think you didn’t get my first post about us having the same evidence, let me try again.
The fact/evidence, is neutral. We both have the same stars, the same fossils, the same rocks, and the same animals and plants, there all the same facts. Its how you look at and interpret the facts based on ones presuppositions that makes it proof of one or the other. Its because we have two different presuppositions we get two different conclusions from the same fact.For instance, since we are already on the subject of “Kinds” of plants and animals, I will use them to show what happens when I look at the current fact and use my biblical presuppositions to build my thinking.Now, us YECs believe that all living species of land animals today descended from pair or in some instances groups of seven animals that came off Noah’s Ark after the biblical flood. (although in some cases of rapidly breeding animals such as lagomorphs and rodents, numerous descendents and the original pairs could have come off the ark) Now the two of each kind (Or seven) had a built in amount of genetic information which is the raw material for virtually all subsequent useful variation.Also, Each original group was presumably genetically and reproductively isolated from other such groups, yet was able to interbreed within its own group. Hence the original kinds would truly have earned the modern biological definition of ”species’. The more variability in the original gene pool, the more easily can such new groups arise. However, each ”splitting’ reduces the potential for further change and therefore even this is limited. All the descendants of such an original kind which was once a species, may then end up being classified together in a much higher taxonomic category - for example: family.Heres a diagram the scientists from AIG put together:
Missing Link | Answers in Genesis So, hypothetically, created kind A was a biological species with probably a large amount of genetic potential. Note in the diagram that A may continue as an unchanged group, as with may of the subgroups. Splitting off of the daughter population doesn’t necessarily mean extinction of the parent population, as wolves are still around even though dogs came about.Now, D1, D2, D3, E1, E2, E3, P1, P2, Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 are all different species, reproductively isolated. But all the functionally efficient genetic information they contain was also present in A. (They presumably carry some mutational defects as well).
Now, let’s assume that the original kind A has become extinct somehow, and also the populations X, B, C, D, E, P and Q are extinct. (But not D1, D2, etc.) If X carried some of the original information from A, which is not represented in B or C, then that information is now lost forever. Therefore, in spite of the fact that there are many ”new species’ which were not originally present, we would have witnessed conservation of most of the information, loss of some, and nothing new added apart from mutations (harmful defects or just meaningless ”noise’ in the genetic information).
So, now we have several new species, all descendents of species A, even though they all look at least somewhat different from A, and probably in most cases very different from A. You can even see this happening today even, just look in the news, or at your local animal breeders. New species are discovered every day, and some species have been shown to adapt quickly to new environments, becoming new species in a relatively short amount of time. Also, breeders of dogs, cats, horses, and other domestic animals have produced groups of animals completely different from there ancestors in only a few generations. Yet no one has been able to make a dog into a totally new “Kind”, just a new variation of the original.Now, show me how your way of thinking and based on your beliefs make sense of the same evidence. And I want you to point out where my science and logic are wrong. Yes, after letting it sit in museums for over fifty years, and even having “Experts” Examine the fossil and confirm that it was real. How about the fact many of the dinosaurs in dinoisaur graveyards (Colorado, northeastern Wyoming, ect) are found in marine sediments?
Oh, and not to mention this quote about the Dinosaur Bone Beds in Montana: There has been no flood or mudslide in recent history to account for the fossil evidence we find now. As I have stated, evidence is neutral. But if you insist . .1: Grand Canyon limestone is of a type that isn’t set down over long periods of time. Instead, evidence indicates raid set down by fast flowing currents of water.2: Uluru and Kata Tjuta in Australia the ubiquitous fresh feldspar crystals in the arkose that makes up the rocks would never have survived the claimed millions of years.3: Devils Tower; It is clear from the length of the columns that the whole body of rock was once a single pool of lava, not a series of small flows, one on top of the other. The lava eruption must have been quite rapid for the whole volume to accumulate before it started to cool and solidify.Ect, ect, ect. Just go type Flood Geology into the search bar at the AIG web site, or even Yahoo.Oh, by the way, I made a little mistake when I did my 472,000 land animal species thing. I never bothered to take out the 300,000 species of plants, as I figured the 1.7 mil species was only animals. So now we are down to 172,000 land animals.