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Author Topic:   Jesus; the Torah, Nevi'im, and Psalms (Part 2)
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 226 of 233 (274068)
12-30-2005 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 225 by jar
12-30-2005 12:48 AM


Re: Didn't see this before the edit
If he can hear refers to being able to discern and understand it, jar, not just being able to hear sound. Jesus refers to Elijah "who was to come." Do you admit that refers to Malachi's prophecy or not?
If you don't admit that, what other prophecy about Elijah coming do you think Jesus is referring to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by jar, posted 12-30-2005 12:48 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by jar, posted 12-30-2005 1:04 AM randman has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 227 of 233 (274069)
12-30-2005 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by randman
12-30-2005 12:57 AM


Re: Didn't see this before the edit
I think that he was making general allusions at best, and that the more likely scenario is that through redaction, the authors of the New Testament quote mined. Malachi is perfectly clear, it does not apply to either John the Baptist or to Jesus.
No as I have said, you are perfectly free to believe anything you want. There are even people that believe that the Flood or Biblical Exodus happened. I simply am not convinced that the places you mentioned show prophecy has a dual meaning. Jesus was only speaking allegorically.
If you don't admit that, what other prophecy about Elijah coming do you think Jesus is referring to?
None. He was not talking about any prophecy. He was simply comparing John to Elijah.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by randman, posted 12-30-2005 12:57 AM randman has replied

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 Message 228 by randman, posted 12-30-2005 1:37 AM jar has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 228 of 233 (274076)
12-30-2005 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by jar
12-30-2005 1:04 AM


Re: Didn't see this before the edit
Jar, trying to weasel out of the obvious, eh. Look everyone knows they were looking for the Messiah, but that "that prophet" should come first, Elijah. Clearly Jesus was referring to the malachi prophecy as the expectation of Elijah was based on that prophecy.
You choose to deny truth to your own self-harm, imo.

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 Message 227 by jar, posted 12-30-2005 1:04 AM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 229 of 233 (274108)
12-30-2005 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by randman
12-29-2005 5:35 PM


Re: prophecy
His seed are those that are born-again,
The suffering servant's seed are biological children.
and his days are prolonged indeed, forever.
The servant was to live a long natural life, and was certainly NEVER considered to be immortal.
I think you should stop misrepresenting Judaism and the Tanakh, it is getting extremely tiresome.
Brian.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 230 of 233 (274147)
12-30-2005 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by ramoss
12-29-2005 10:45 PM


Re: Prophecy fraud
you mean like the rest of the bible?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by ramoss, posted 12-29-2005 10:45 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by ramoss, posted 12-30-2005 11:47 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 231 of 233 (274179)
12-30-2005 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by macaroniandcheese
12-30-2005 9:50 AM


Re: Prophecy fraud
It would be more correct to say 'Like most of the New Testament, and all of the synoptic gospels'. There are some of the letters that are attributed to Paul that probably were before 70 C.E. The Book of the Hebrews could also be (or not).
ALl of the Tanakh/old testament is before 70 c.e.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2005 9:50 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

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 Message 233 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-30-2005 1:41 PM ramoss has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 232 of 233 (274205)
12-30-2005 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by randman
12-29-2005 4:46 PM


Authentic Prophecy
Unfortunately your reply to ramoss only answered a small portion of my questions in Message 205. I'd appreicate it if you would address the other questions concerning prophecy.
As far as Isaiah 53, it isn't one of the messianic prophecies I stated in Message 151 because Isaiah 53 is another one that has been argued to death and wastes posts.
Granted you found some Rabbi support for Isaiah 53 being messianic, but not in support of it describing Jesus 100%.
This link gives all the arguments that have been brought forward before concerning Isaiah 53 and how it does not describe Jesus.
So unless you have something new to add, personally I'm not interested in discussing Isaiah, but I am interested in answers to the other questions I raised.

There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

This message is a reply to:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 233 of 233 (274206)
12-30-2005 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by ramoss
12-30-2005 11:47 AM


Re: Prophecy fraud
They are not really evidence.
i meant that part.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ramoss, posted 12-30-2005 11:47 AM ramoss has not replied

  
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