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Author Topic:   A proof against ID and Creationism
Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 181 of 300 (283249)
02-01-2006 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by macaroniandcheese
02-01-2006 5:17 PM


Re: Missing links
Where is your proof that there were females before males? There is no real evidence of this. I am talking about humans.
This message has been edited by Menachem, 02-01-2006 05:34 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-01-2006 5:17 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by DrJones*, posted 02-01-2006 5:34 PM Menachem has replied
 Message 184 by crashfrog, posted 02-01-2006 6:00 PM Menachem has replied
 Message 196 by Wounded King, posted 02-02-2006 2:38 AM Menachem has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 182 of 300 (283253)
02-01-2006 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Menachem
02-01-2006 5:24 PM


Re: Missing links
Where is your proof that there were females before males?
Where is your proof that there were males before females?

If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:24 PM Menachem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:51 PM DrJones* has replied

Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 300 (283256)
02-01-2006 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by DrJones*
02-01-2006 5:34 PM


Re: Missing links
Where is your proof that there were males before females?
I asked you first! Just kidding.
I go by the Hebrew account that says female humans were made after males unlike any other creature. This is what I believe - so until proven otherwise it remains my belief.
We do agree though that there is no real evidence - apart from looking at other creatures.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by DrJones*, posted 02-01-2006 5:34 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-01-2006 6:10 PM Menachem has replied
 Message 188 by jar, posted 02-01-2006 6:24 PM Menachem has replied
 Message 189 by DrJones*, posted 02-01-2006 6:35 PM Menachem has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 184 of 300 (283258)
02-01-2006 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Menachem
02-01-2006 5:24 PM


Re: Missing links
Where is your proof that there were females before males?
Well, she didn't say "before." What she said is that the default gender of human beings is female.
And she's correct. When sex differentiation in the developing fetus is interrupted or disabled, the resulting human is female. When gonadal tissued develop absent a sex "command" from other parts of the developing fetus, they, on their own, develop female.
Mutations on the Y chromosome that disable the SRY genes result in females. No mutation on any X chromosome causes maleness.
As near as we can tell, the developing fetus proceeds down the "female" direction until the SRY genes send a signal to proceed towards maleness; if that signal never arrives - as a result of not having a Y chromosome, or having a defective SRY gene, or other happenstance - the resulting human is female.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:24 PM Menachem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 6:10 PM crashfrog has replied

Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 185 of 300 (283261)
02-01-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by crashfrog
02-01-2006 6:00 PM


Re: Missing links
As near as we can tell, the developing fetus proceeds down the "female" direction until the SRY genes send a signal to proceed towards maleness; if that signal never arrives - as a result of not having a Y chromosome, or having a defective SRY gene, or other happenstance - the resulting human is female.
As great as reproduction is, it doesn't answer the question of origin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by crashfrog, posted 02-01-2006 6:00 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by crashfrog, posted 02-01-2006 11:12 PM Menachem has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 186 of 300 (283262)
02-01-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Menachem
02-01-2006 5:51 PM


Re: Missing links
actually. the first genesis story tells than men and women were created at the same time. and what makes us different from animals? why is our female different than a female anything else?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:51 PM Menachem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 6:23 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 187 of 300 (283264)
02-01-2006 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by macaroniandcheese
02-01-2006 6:10 PM


Re: Missing links
the first genesis story tells than men and women were created at the same time
This is not true. Do I have to tell you the real story?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-01-2006 6:10 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 188 of 300 (283265)
02-01-2006 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Menachem
02-01-2006 5:51 PM


re:genesis and theorder.
I go by the Hebrew account that says female humans were made after males unlike any other creature.
Actually, the Hebrew account is contradictory on that point. It also says that male and female were made at the same time, just like all the other animals. Genesis 1:23
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
It's only later on in the Bible, in a different (but likely earlier) story that the Hebrew God is depicted as a complete fool that is not even smart enough to know what a proper helpmeet is for the Man he made (like he didn't have examples from all the other critters) and tries to pawn off goats and oxen and lions and tigers and bears and ohmys as adequate.
edited to fix subtitle
This message has been edited by jar, 02-01-2006 05:34 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:51 PM Menachem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 7:00 PM jar has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 189 of 300 (283267)
02-01-2006 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Menachem
02-01-2006 5:51 PM


Re: Missing links
I go by the Hebrew account that says female humans were made after males unlike any other creature. This is what I believe - so until proven otherwise it remains my belief.
Thats just super. However we're in a science topic, so the Hebrew account amounts to jack squat.

If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 5:51 PM Menachem has not replied

Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 190 of 300 (283272)
02-01-2006 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by jar
02-01-2006 6:24 PM


Re: re:genesis and theorder.
This is not the place for this so I wouldn't be surprised if the following is considered off topic.
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
That is not what it says in the Hebrew!
27 And He will create elohim* et**-the human in his image. In the image of the elohim* He created him (the human). Male and female he created them (the elohim).
* Elohim - gods - see Ezekiel, Psalms, Proverbs (just 3 examples).
** Let me explain 3 meanings of the word 'et' in Hebrew:
1. The one that is being referred to.
2. Inside of...
3. With...
All of these translations are true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by jar, posted 02-01-2006 6:24 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 02-01-2006 7:05 PM Menachem has replied
 Message 193 by ramoss, posted 02-01-2006 7:26 PM Menachem has not replied
 Message 194 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-01-2006 10:57 PM Menachem has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 191 of 300 (283273)
02-01-2006 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Menachem
02-01-2006 7:00 PM


Re: genesis and the order.
What??????????
That doesn't even make as much sense as the usual Creationist Idist tap dancing.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 7:00 PM Menachem has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 7:16 PM jar has not replied

Menachem
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 300 (283277)
02-01-2006 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by jar
02-01-2006 7:05 PM


Re: genesis and the order.
I don't expect you to understand it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by jar, posted 02-01-2006 7:05 PM jar has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 193 of 300 (283283)
02-01-2006 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Menachem
02-01-2006 7:00 PM


Re: re:genesis and theorder.
Well, since the verb following 'eholhim' in those cases are singular, you have the case of 'Elohim' being a singular with magnification of importance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 7:00 PM Menachem has not replied

macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 194 of 300 (283315)
02-01-2006 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Menachem
02-01-2006 7:00 PM


Re: re:genesis and theorder.
that's very nice. he still created them at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 7:00 PM Menachem has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 195 of 300 (283317)
02-01-2006 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Menachem
02-01-2006 6:10 PM


Re: Missing links
As great as reproduction is, it doesn't answer the question of origin.
...so, I take it your parents haven't sat you down for the "talk"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Menachem, posted 02-01-2006 6:10 PM Menachem has not replied

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