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Author | Topic: A proof against ID and Creationism | |||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Ingenuity and creation requires some one who has the capability of design. Nonsense. Repetition and plagarism are what is found in the natural world; there's almost no biological novelty. Living things rarely exhibit any traits but those derived by slight modification to existing features. But even then, nothing is more creative than randomness - the randomness that is a feature of mutation.
There is definite plan and purpose and a Designer. You must not work in biology.
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NosyNed Member Posts: 8996 From: Canada Joined: |
Anything new requires intelligence. Ingenuity and creation requires some one who has the capability of design Have you been reading posts in reply to you for the last several days? It has been demonstrated very thoroughly that newness does NOT require an intelligence.
It takes lot more faith on my part to believe that everything self assembled( like proteins) than to believe in an intelligent designer who invents. Here you exhibit an inability to separate biological evolution from the chemistry required to get to the first life-like forms. Please remember to keep them separate. Biological evolution can take very simple imperfect replicators to what we see today. Getting the first replicators is, as has been noted, a subject of some study today. If you wish to believe that those studies will never answer the question because your intelligent designer did it you are, to a limited degree, free to believe that for now. It isn't a very safe position to adopt but you are free too.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
In reply to the question, "How do you determine whether something 'cannot self assemble or self synthesize'?" you say:
inkorrekt writes: Amino acids do not self assemble and synthesize proteins. Chances of this occuring is less than 1 in (10 X 42) which is a statistical improbability. I have somewhat the same response as Parasomnium, but I'll phrase it differently. The origins of life community does not claim to have reconstructed the process by which pre-life became life. They do not know whether proteins came first, or RNA came first, or something else came first, or how many intermediate steps there were, or what those intermediate steps were. One can't calculate a probability for an unknown process. Your 1 in 1042 figure is made up. We all understand that the odds of pouring a mixture of amino acids into a beaker and having them spontaneously form proteins is small. No one is proposing that that's how it happened. Most origins of life researchers believe that life arose through a long sequence of small steps whose details we may never tease out of the sparse evidence. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
inkorrekt writes: Anything new requires intelligence. Ingenuity and creation requires some one who has the capability of design. This is false. For example, any new mutation, which is just a copying error during cell division, can produce a new allele, thereby increasing the amount of information in the population's gene pool. Mutations require no intelligence. This principle is also demonstrated by genetic algorithms. We can get into the details if you like. They demonstrate true originality and creativity. --Percy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
We may not ever know the precise process, but we are getting new evidence rapidly. Here is a link to yet another possible step in the process showing one method where peptides could be built up.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
The analogy between ID and Steve Jobs is simple and is obvious. The word "INVENTION" must make lot of sense. If you can imagine the processes involved in inventing a computer out of microprocessors and electronic components, then you have the answer. Any invention requires extra intelligence. I cannot make this much simpler for you.
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
So what? I do not have to use the first apple computer in order to understand Steve's invention. I use the latest version of the IBM PC. Whether it is Apple or IBM, it is the basic computer. What we are discussing here is the Intelligence of Steve Jobs with which he Designed the first Apple computer. It is not the version of the computer at discussion.
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
Verywell said. This is why frogs stay as frogs and do not evolve into anything else. Thanks for proving that macroevolution does not occur..
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The analogy between ID and Steve Jobs is simple and is obvious.
Indeed, it is quite obvious that there is no analogy there at all. That Steve Jobs might have invented the apple has no relation as to whether biological organisms are invented or have evolved. All of the evidence is that they have evolved. The source of the first life form on earth is as yet unknown, but ToE does not deal with that issue. It deals only with accounting for the observed biological diversity.
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Verywell said. This is why frogs stay as frogs and do not evolve into anything else. Thanks for proving that macroevolution does not occur.. Don't be intentionally thick. It isn't necessary. The evidence for evolution lies in tracing how frogs came to be frogs, not in speculation about whether speciation will produce something else. "Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?" -Sir Toby Belch, Twelfth Night Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
inkorrekt's response to crashfrog is a non sequitur. In fact, even as sarcasm it doesn't make sense as a response.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Verywell said. This is why frogs stay as frogs and do not evolve into anything else. Thanks for proving that macroevolution does not occur.. Complete non sequitor. Now, how about you actually address my point?
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
If God created everything, then God was not created. Otherwise, God becomes one of the creations which has no power to create. God was never created. But, He always existed. This is hard for me to understand.But, thi smakes lot of sense to me. Who am I to question my creator?
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
Millions of mutations were carried out on Drosophila Melanogaster. So far they have never identified one useful mutant.Randomness cannot produce any order. Biological evolution does not occur without chemicals. Chemical evolution cannot occur. Therefore biological evolution is impossible.
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
How do you determine whether something "cannot self assemble or self synthesize"?
This is plain and simple. We have all built some models. What happens when we buy them from the store? They are all well packed. We bring them home, follow the instructions and put different components in the proper place. They do not self assemble themselves. This is asimple analogy. Even the basic components of a model do not self assemble. The answer to your question is that when you want to make something involving assembly and it does not assemble itself, then you determine that that particular product does not self assemble.
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