Author
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Topic: How do we know about natural selection? (Igor and Lithodid-Man only)
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Message 1 of 43 (298150)
03-25-2006 10:00 PM
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A Great Discussion between Igor and Lithodid-Man How can we know about natural selection? All I understand it to be is nature itself deciding who is supreme and who is not. It all sounds like God but without a brain or any idea what it is doing. Everytime it seems like it is doing good work through its mechanism, evolution. We can not prove it because it is a force nobody can tell you a thing about. Nobody has ever seen natural selection. They have no idea WHAT is natural selection. Yes we may have a definition for it, but can somebody explain what it is? If we never see it than how do we know it exists. I know this sounds like a God argument but there are reasons to believe in Him. People have talked to God but nobody has talked to natural selection. I do realize this is badly written but this is the best way I could think of to write it and help people understand my confusion. Also this is a flawed understanding of natural selection but it is all that I understand that it is. Clairification is very neccessary. This message has been edited by igor_the_hero, 03-25-2006 10:58 PM This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-26-2006 04:41 PM
{Edited topic title to add the "(Igor and Lithodid-Man only)" part. - Adminnemooseus} This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-30-2006 04:19 PM
Replies to this message: | | Message 2 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 10:14 PM | | igor_the_hero has replied | | Message 11 by crashfrog, posted 03-26-2006 5:32 PM | | igor_the_hero has not replied |
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Message 3 of 43 (298172)
03-25-2006 10:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 2 by AdminJar 03-25-2006 10:14 PM
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Re: Needs lots of work.
Does this help any? I am sorry. This is just a very confusing subject for me.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 2 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 10:14 PM | | AdminJar has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 4 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 11:06 PM | | igor_the_hero has replied |
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 43 (298178)
03-25-2006 11:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by AdminJar 03-25-2006 11:06 PM
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Re: Needs lots of work.
Absolutely. Nobody has ever explained it to me and when I ask they avoid the question.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 4 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 11:06 PM | | AdminJar has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 6 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 11:12 PM | | igor_the_hero has replied |
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Message 7 of 43 (298185)
03-25-2006 11:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by AdminJar 03-25-2006 11:12 PM
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Re: Needs lots of work.
Done.
This message is a reply to: | | Message 6 by AdminJar, posted 03-25-2006 11:12 PM | | AdminJar has replied |
Replies to this message: | | Message 8 by AdminJar, posted 03-26-2006 4:48 PM | | igor_the_hero has not replied |
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Yes, but what IS it? You told me what it is referrd to, but what kind of force is it?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
Ok, I understand you. I think. But how would you prove it? Also, when you are selecting, you have to have a selector, correct? I think I may be misinterpreting what you are saying about selecting not being selecting.
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
But in your example about the deer, you couldn't really consider the environment. A lot of animals migrate so that they can survive.
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
What if you get a perfect species suited to one particular spot? Like your deer in the valley. Now, let's say you have some sort of natural disaster that throws it all out of wack. Then your deer go extinct because the aren't adapted to the changes that take place in the disaster. Would that be considered natural selection?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
Does natural selection ever have any unexplained changes? I mean like the chaemeleon. There are plenty of animals out there that are camoflauged without having to change colors. What could happen that would make it so that the chaemeleon would need that ability to change how it does?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
Ok. It still confuses me some but I think I understand. Now can you tell me why there are tons of animals out there dying from rainforests being cut down (which you have said is a form of natural selection) and are not doing anything that is helping them to stay alive? If natural selection inspires a change than shouldn't there be species of the same animal popping up all over with new characteristics?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
Is it possible to get natural selection and no change? I mean you have an animal that is poorly suited to its environment. Then a catastrophe changes its habitat to make it perfectly suited to a new one.
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Great question!
What if you get natural selection and no mutation? If you have to wait billions of years for a helpful mutation, wouldn't natural selection cause the species to go extinct?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Waiting for mutation
Sorry for the delayed response. This has been a very hectic few days. Okay, now if mutations have to coincide with the environment then why aren't all the species going extinct? Humans are changing the whole Earth except for the most inhospitable geographical zones (mountains, deserts,etc.) We pollute the air so all creatures lungs would have to be mutating. (Although with oil becoming harder to find that is a bad example.) We are cutting down trees, making some animals have to find homes in stuff we make. They will have to mutate to eat our litter as we make their own food hardr to find. What I am asking is why aren't animals going extinct when we are changing the environment so rapidly?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Extinction
Quote:Your question is complex and I do not have all of the answers. Okay, this was taken a bit out of context. If we do not have all the answer why this mostly taught as a proven fact? I do not rememeber who it was but somebody on here said, "Evolution is proven except for the lack of proof that we just have to find." In science the last time I checked, when you have no proof the thing is unproven. Now, where is all the proof for natural selection. I remember the example you used about the deer and dandelions. What I mean really is where is the proof?
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igor_the_hero
Inactive Member
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Re: Evolution is a fact
But when you consider theories, what about laws? The Laws of Thermodynamics for example. Those aren't theories, they have been successfully proven.
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