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Author | Topic: A Christian State. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I said it was A basis for the Constitution.
quote: http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/2.htm http://www.constitutioncenter.org/...ngDocuments/index.shtml
This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-12-2006 02:08 PM
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5859 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
No this is what you said:
The early days of America were fundamentalist. Good things came of it such as the first governing principles that ultimately undergirded the US Constitution. Sheesh. Number one is clearly false. There were a few fundie colonies, but they were far from the majority and some of them were horribly oppressive (the puritans). Your second claim here is total nonsense. The constitution had nothing to do with fundamentalism and in fact the main writers of the constitution were not even fans of religion in general, much less fundamentalism. The fact that the constitution is directly opposed to fundamentalist priciples should have been your first clue.
This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-12-2006 02:09 PM
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EZscience Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 961 From: A wheatfield in Kansas Joined: |
If there really was a Christian Fundamentalist State it would be little better than Taliban Rule. However, even if they could dominate all their secular opponents, they would probably end up killing each other over which 'true interpretation' of the Bible should be the basis for their legislation. It would eventually self-destruct or a new dark age would ensue.
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
This thread is not about American History or debating the past.
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4135 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
{ABEidn't see mod posts}
i think a christian state wouldn't work, the bible and christianity as a whole seem agenst intellecualism, as well as being unwilling to accept others can't or won't believe in thier godSo questioning authority would be out science would be limited to things that do not explore the structures of nature, which is umm.. nothing plus there is nothing in the bible to base a modern govermenton This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 04-12-2006 02:40 PM
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The reason I brought up history is that historically this idea that Christianity is opposed to freedoms or to intellectual work is just plain wrong, so your ideas of what a Christian State would be like are just based on your ignorance of history. Historically obtuse. The Puritans ought to be evidence of that, and the Reformation too for that matter, which liberated all kinds of intellectual work, and the Roman Catholic church as well. Universities were founded by Christians for training Christians. You guys are all ignorant of history. Religious freedom was most strongly argued by Puritan theologian John Owen, Dean of Oxford when John Locke was a student there. I've posted on this before.
This message has been edited by Faith, 04-12-2006 02:47 PM
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message. --AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:40 AM
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SuperNintendo Chalmers Member (Idle past 5859 days) Posts: 772 From: Bartlett, IL, USA Joined: |
You guys are all ignorant of history HAHAHAHAHA, Faith, I've forgotten more high school level history than you will ever know (we won't even get into more advanced historical subjects). I'm not sure where you get all these bizarre ideas, but I would love to find out This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 04-12-2006 03:03 PM
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message. --AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:41 AM
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ReverendDG Member (Idle past 4135 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: |
History is besides the point if we are talking now. As for your "assessment" of my knowlege of history, i think i will take it with a large block of salt
the additudes of today show a remarkible recession in the willingness to learn and grow in comparision to everyone else but the islamic statesi mean the so called EVC controvercy alone shows the unbending orthodoxy ingrained in our society IT and science is slowly dying in america and being outsourced to other countries, because of an overt fear of change, its exactly like what happened to the middle east after the ottomen empire fell. As for your history argement, were any of the people fighting for religious freedom out of willingness to allow other religous beliefs to gain equal footing in america? or was he like all of those people a rationalist who gets lumped togather with all the other groups. It's funny though, every time i read about how such and such, preach religious tolerince, its useally because they are being oppressed, by the goverment.none of the people presented did it for others, but for thier own groups This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 04-12-2006 03:16 PM
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to the history portion of this message. AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:44 AM
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1492 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You're right, of course.
It's too bad that the Christianists who would institute a theocratic government are completely opposed to all the movements and influences you've described. That's why Christianity's positive history of intellectual freedom (to a degree; as late as the 1640's England was still prosecuting Catholics and "atheists", by which they meant anybody who was not Protestant or Catholic) basically has nothing to do with whatever future a Christianist theocracy would bring. You don't believe me? Well, the only group actually promoting Christian theocracy in America are Gary North and his "Christian Reconstructionists". Read through their literature and tell me if you see the intellectual tradition of Owen and Locke - or the intellectual slavery of Torquemada and A Handmaiden's Tale.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3953 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
christianity demands either a theocratic monarch or a patriarchal commune secluded from society.
it is incompatible with modern government and a true christian state would be a nightmare of human rights violations. just because we're lucky enough to have had a few christians in history who didn't have their head stuck in rectal positions and supported religious freedom does not mean a christian state would be a safe and healthy one. This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-12-2006 03:51 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...except if you were a woman. ...or a Jew. ...or a Muslim. ...or anyone who disagreed with the Christians in power.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message. --AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:45 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Has anyone here read The Handmaid's Tale] by Margaret Atwood? A synopsis:
A revolution has taken place and the United States has become a dystopia. The Constitution has been abrogated, and a new order has been established: the Republic of Gilead. The Republic of Gilead is ruled through biblical propaganda and rigid enforcement of social roles. Most citizens have been stripped of their freedoms. All religions, except the official state religion, have been suppressed. Those who do not conform to the new societal norms are pressed into service as maids and personal servants or deported to "the colonies" (regions where pollution has reached toxic levels) ” if they are lucky. Political and religious dissidents, abortionists, and homosexuals are executed and hung at "The Wall" for public display. The government has proclaimed martial law due to the destabilizing effect of "hordes of guerrillas" roaming the countryside, although the actual threat from the "guerrillas" may be greatly exaggerated. Chilling and all too probable, especially given the times we are currently living through. This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-12-2006 04:27 PM
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I disagree. Christianity has, at times, has embraced intellectualism in the highest degree. The Jesuits, for example, have long been stalwart defenders of higher learning. It is Christian fundamentalism which is anti-intellectual when it comes to intellectual progress. I think it is wrong to lump all Christians together.
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Er, women were historically considered chattel in Christianity for quite a long time.
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message. --AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:47 AM
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nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Did the Puritans belive in "religious freedom" for the Native Indian tribes they tried to convert to Christianity? Did you know that when it was founded in 1769, the purpose of Dartmouth College was to convert the Native Indians to Christianity?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message. --AdminPD This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:48 AM
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