A Christian State.

I said it was A basis for the Constitution.

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The Compact is often described as America's first constitution, but it is not a constitution in the sense of being a fundamental framework of government. Its importance lies in the belief that government is a form of covenant, and that for government to be legitimate, it must derive from the consent of the governed. The settlers recognized that individually they might not agree with all of the actions of the government they were creating; but they, and succeeding generations, understood that government could be legitimate only if it originated with the consent of those it claimed to govern.

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http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/2.htmhttp://www.constitutioncenter.org/...ngDocuments/index.shtml This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-12-2006 02:08 PM

No this is what you said: Number one is clearly false. There were a few fundie colonies, but they were far from the majority and some of them were horribly oppressive (the puritans). Your second claim here is total nonsense. The constitution had nothing to do with fundamentalism and in fact the main writers of the constitution were not even fans of religion in general, much less fundamentalism.The fact that the constitution is directly opposed to fundamentalist priciples should have been your first clue. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-12-2006 02:09 PM

If there really was a Christian Fundamentalist State it would be little better than Taliban Rule. However, even if they could dominate all their secular opponents, they would probably end up killing each other over which 'true interpretation' of the Bible should be the basis for their legislation. It would eventually self-destruct or a new dark age would ensue.

This thread is not about American History or debating the past.Apparently the friendly reminder from AdminMod wasn't loud enough.KNOCK IT OFF!Anymore comments continuing off topic will be made invisible.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.Thank you

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Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate

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{ABEidn't see mod posts}i think a christian state wouldn't work, the bible and christianity as a whole seem agenst intellecualism, as well as being unwilling to accept others can't or won't believe in thier god
So questioning authority would be out
science would be limited to things that do not explore the structures of nature, which is umm.. nothingplus there is nothing in the bible to base a modern goverment
onThis message has been edited by ReverendDG, 04-12-2006 02:40 PM

The reason I brought up history is that historically this idea that Christianity is opposed to freedoms or to intellectual work is just plain wrong, so your ideas of what a Christian State would be like are just based on your ignorance of history. Historically obtuse. The Puritans ought to be evidence of that, and the Reformation too for that matter, which liberated all kinds of intellectual work, and the Roman Catholic church as well. Universities were founded by Christians for training Christians. You guys are all ignorant of history. Religious freedom was most strongly argued by Puritan theologian John Owen, Dean of Oxford when John Locke was a student there. I've posted on this before.This message has been edited by Faith, 04-12-2006 02:47 PM This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:40 AM

HAHAHAHAHA, Faith, I've forgotten more high school level history than you will ever know (we won't even get into more advanced historical subjects). I'm not sure where you get all these bizarre ideas, but I would love to find outThis message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 04-12-2006 03:03 PM This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:41 AM

History is besides the point if we are talking now. As for your "assessment" of my knowlege of history, i think i will take it with a large block of saltthe additudes of today show a remarkible recession in the willingness to learn and grow in comparision to everyone else but the islamic states
i mean the so called EVC controvercy alone shows the unbending orthodoxy ingrained in our societyIT and science is slowly dying in america and being outsourced to other countries, because of an overt fear of change, its exactly like what happened to the middle east after the ottomen empire fell.As for your history argement, were any of the people fighting for religious freedom out of willingness to allow other religous beliefs to gain equal footing in america? or was he like all of those people a rationalist who gets lumped togather with all the other groups.It's funny though, every time i read about how such and such, preach religious tolerince, its useally because they are being oppressed, by the goverment.
none of the people presented did it for others, but for thier own groupsThis message has been edited by ReverendDG, 04-12-2006 03:16 PM This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:44 AM

You're right, of course.It's too bad that the Christianists who would institute a theocratic government are completely opposed to all the movements and influences you've described. That's why Christianity's positive history of intellectual freedom (to a degree; as late as the 1640's England was still prosecuting Catholics and "atheists", by which they meant anybody who was not Protestant or Catholic) basically has nothing to do with whatever future a Christianist theocracy would bring.You don't believe me? Well, the only group actually promoting Christian theocracy in America are Gary North and his "Christian Reconstructionists". Read through their literature and tell me if you see the intellectual tradition of Owen and Locke - or the intellectual slavery of Torquemada and A Handmaiden's Tale.

christianity demands either a theocratic monarch or a patriarchal commune secluded from society.
it is incompatible with modern government and a true christian state would be a nightmare of human rights violations.just because we're lucky enough to have had a few christians in history who didn't have their head stuck in rectal positions and supported religious freedom does not mean a christian state would be a safe and healthy one.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-12-2006 03:51 PM

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The Reformation was as good as a fundamentalist state and Europe thrived under it.

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...except if you were a woman....or a Jew....or a Muslim....or anyone who disagreed with the Christians in power. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:45 AM

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I was wondering the other day what would a country turn out like if it became a xian fundementalist state. That is to say that the government would abide by the religious laws and strictures of the bible. Here I include YEC ideology.

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Has anyone here read The Handmaid's Tale] by Margaret Atwood?A synopsis: Chilling and all too probable, especially given the times we are currently living through.This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-12-2006 04:27 PM

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i think a christian state wouldn't work, the bible and christianity as a whole seem agenst intellecualism,

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I disagree.Christianity has, at times, has embraced intellectualism in the highest degree. The Jesuits, for example, have long been stalwart defenders of higher learning.It is Christian fundamentalism which is anti-intellectual when it comes to intellectual progress.I think it is wrong to lump all Christians together.

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The reason I brought up history is that historically this idea that Christianity is opposed to freedoms or to intellectual work is just plain wrong

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Er, women were historically considered chattel in Christianity for quite a long time. This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:47 AM

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The reason I brought up history is that historically this idea that Christianity is opposed to freedoms or to intellectual work is just plain wrong, so your ideas of what a Christian State would be like are just based on your ignorance of history. Historically obtuse. The Puritans ought to be evidence of that, and the Reformation too for that matter, which liberated all kinds of intellectual work, and the Roman Catholic church as well. Universities were founded by Christians for training Christians.

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Did the Puritans belive in "religious freedom" for the Native Indian tribes they tried to convert to Christianity?Did you know that when it was founded in 1769, the purpose of Dartmouth College was to convert the Native Indians to Christianity? This message has been edited by AdminPD, 04-14-2006 06:48 AM