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Author Topic:   Is God Alive or Dead?
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 1 of 10 (306319)
04-24-2006 3:56 PM


Do the opinions of human beings determine the existence, or otherwise, of God?
Or is God more clearly defined by how well or otherwise human beings, as the ultimate creature, reflect the thoughts and intentions of God as recorded by all the great religions of the world?
Do human beings need God or is He no longer needed on our journey?
Are we in any way responsible for the life or death of God?
This message has been edited by Malachi-II, 04-26-2006 04:42 AM
This message has been edited by Malachi-II, 04-26-2006 05:03 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 04-25-2006 8:23 AM Malachi-II has replied
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 04-26-2006 7:10 AM Malachi-II has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 10 (306437)
04-25-2006 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Malachi-II
04-24-2006 3:56 PM


Please Clarify
Interesting post, but it doesn't seem to address the question "Is God Dead or Alive?" or are you arguing that the question is scientifically irrelevant?
Your statement:
I question practical science’s insistence that things that actually happen leave evidence.
seems to be more of what your post is about and not really discussing whether God is dead or alive.
If you want to discuss that the question is scientifically irrelevant, then it needs to be made more obvious in the title and the opening paragraph and your concluding statements.
If you want to discuss whether "things that actually happen leave evidence" or not, then the title needs to reflect that intent.
Then you write:
have two more questions which might seem to stray from the subject but, to my mind, cannot be divorced from a belief derived from empirical experience and observable reality.
So I need clarification as to what you specifically want to discuss. Left as is, I can see this branching off in many directions.
Thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Malachi-II, posted 04-24-2006 3:56 PM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Malachi-II, posted 04-25-2006 2:57 PM AdminPD has replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 3 of 10 (306523)
04-25-2006 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
04-25-2006 8:23 AM


Re: Please Clarify
Thanks for refocusing my mind. I just read rule 8 again.
Is God dead or alive?
I believe that ”Gods’ created by our forebears were done in good faith. I believe, as intelligence evolved and primitive tribes struggled to understand (as we still do) the purpose of life, they concluded that unseen forces threatened or enabled their survival.
Perhaps a hunter with increasing awareness carefully observed the elements then, with excellent timing, made it appear that he had power to appease those unseen forces (gods). His authority grew, and others, in their deliberate ignorance, obeyed and respected him. And so the show goes on.
A brief summary of my view of the history of origins of religion. In whatever manner ancient peoples expressed their beliefs and acts of worship of unseen powers, there is little doubt in my mind that ambitiously cunning groups turned people’s fears of unknown forces to their own advantage. They gained enormous power.
It will not be necessary to remind anyone of the catalogue of murder, genocide and horrible destruction wreaked on this earth through the ages by power struggles between ”faiths’. We are now in the throes of what might be the bloodiest of all.
Why?
Because, in my opinion, religions became forces of evil employed by Man against his fellows. President Bush was quoted as saying, ”I’m driven with a mission from God. God would tell me: George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq . . . and I did’.” Mr Bush also said, ”And now, again, I feel God’s words coming to me - go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I’m gonna do it.’
Well, I don’t know about anyone else, but I find it difficult to believe that God would say things like that to someone who is obviously not mentally ill. So I thought I’d ask God if He really did tell George to do those things.
God replied, “Are you joking? You think I’m stupid? I thought you knew that I don’t pander to human beings, no matter how important they think they are. Don’t you know already that I created everything through the power of Love? What kind of Love would go around zapping people because of a little dispute over land or some stupid ideology. I ask you, do you really think that I would encourage anyone to destroy one tiny part of creation? Isn’t it bad enough that people think the process of evolution is harmful? Is it my fault they aren’t mature enough to see the big picture?
“Think a little - make an effort - just because some people say they know me doesn’t mean they do! Let’s face it, a little power on earth in the hands of some puffed up tyrants gives them the idea that I’m in their corner. And of course other people will believe it out of fear for their miserable lives. I tell you, I care more for the helpless life forms struggling to survive and evolve that are treated contemptuously by your so-called progressives . . .”
Then why don’t you do something to help them, I shouted.
“Progressives! Ha! It’s all about money, sex, fashion and self gratification.”
I shouted again. Why don’t you help them?
“Who?”
The helpless life forms!
“My boy, what can I do? Your species evolved quicker than most - which was in line with my plan - but the whole idea was for you to think for yourselves, to figure out how best to continue what I started. And, if I do say so myself, it isn’t altogether bad. What?”
Yeah, not bad.
“Thank you. Now you want the bad news?”
If I must.
“Right. I cannot interfere because I gave humans the power of my creative love to continue what I started. If they’d wise up to that fact the glorious planet would be more cooperative. My beautiful Earth is tired of being treated like dirt. If mankind would pause a moment to listen he would hear the planet moaning, ”Enough already.’ My tears will not help you. My concern will not save you from yourselves. I have other fish to fry, as you say.”
But!
“No, buts. Get on with the job I gave you. Otherwise get out of the way. Make room for a more intelligent species.”
Who? . . . . Who?! . . . . (there was no answer). Oh, well, I guess He said enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 04-25-2006 8:23 AM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 04-25-2006 5:20 PM Malachi-II has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 10 (306554)
04-25-2006 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Malachi-II
04-25-2006 2:57 PM


Re: Please Clarify
Thank you for the background. It helps me understand you a bit more, but doesn't really clarify your intent for the discussion you are proposing in Message 1.
Please address some of the questions I asked in Message 2.
I feel the topic has potential, but needs work.
You can edit the original message if you decide to make changes.
Thanks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Malachi-II, posted 04-25-2006 2:57 PM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Malachi-II, posted 04-26-2006 4:31 AM AdminPD has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 5 of 10 (306632)
04-26-2006 4:31 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminPD
04-25-2006 5:20 PM


Re: Please Clarify
So I need clarification as to what you specifically want to discuss. Left as is, I can see this branching off in many directions.
You’re right, of course. I have difficulty in separating large or small threads for the enormously complicated tapestry we call the universe. I admire those who can isolate a nucleus and explain its properties and functions. Every thread I grab seems to lead my thinking to a central weaver, if you like.
My last post provided two roots to tap. Each root would, as you say, lead to innumerable branches and would obviously diffuse one’s focus and perhaps lead nowhere. I am trying to reach the top of a tree. I am swinging, climbing and hanging from branches that shake and move in the great torrent of incredibly searching and intelligent opinions expressed by our species on everything.
Don’t misunderstand me. There’s no other way, that I can think of, to understand the complex reality we inhabit. I learn from others. Not only about subjects of which I know zilch, but about my own perceptions and conclusions.
Having said that, I will go back and reconstruct my first posting here.
Perhaps I can eventually find a thread that will answer the three questions raised in my first message. I look forward to increasing my understanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 04-25-2006 5:20 PM AdminPD has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 6 of 10 (306649)
04-26-2006 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Malachi-II
04-24-2006 3:56 PM


Well this is considerably different than what you started with. All very good questions and each a possible topic.
There are a few topics still open concerning the existence of God which aren't too old.
Does God negate the need for his own existence?
Can the Christian God exist without the Bible?
Proofs of the existence of God The originator of this thread has not posted since July 2005
IF these threads do not give you the avenue you need, then the next step is to pick one of your questions and present your side of the argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Malachi-II, posted 04-24-2006 3:56 PM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Malachi-II, posted 04-26-2006 2:40 PM AdminPD has replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 7 of 10 (306754)
04-26-2006 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminPD
04-26-2006 7:10 AM


Well this is considerably different than what you started with. All very good questions and each a possible topic.
I thought you might say that. Actually, every question in my first post is entirely subjective. I asked them of myself long ago and received answers sufficient unto myself. Anyone who asks the same questions will have to find their own answers for the meaning of their life.
If you read carefully the little allegory I posted you might discover that it symbolizes a great deal about all human beings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 04-26-2006 7:10 AM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 04-26-2006 8:34 PM Malachi-II has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 8 of 10 (306896)
04-26-2006 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Malachi-II
04-26-2006 2:40 PM


Make Decision
Let me know when you decide on which question you wish to build your argument or if you still want to start a new topic.
Thanks AdminPD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Malachi-II, posted 04-26-2006 2:40 PM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Malachi-II, posted 04-27-2006 3:51 AM AdminPD has not replied

Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 6243 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 9 of 10 (306938)
04-27-2006 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AdminPD
04-26-2006 8:34 PM


Re: Make Decision
Thank you. My decision should have been self evident in my previous reply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 04-26-2006 8:34 PM AdminPD has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 10 of 10 (306939)
04-27-2006 3:59 AM


Topic Not Promoted
Topic not promoted due to withdrawal by originator.

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