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Author Topic:   Belief Statement - jar
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 61 of 300 (324023)
06-20-2006 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
06-20-2006 5:30 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
The question was how do you deduce this as being true outside it being a subjective ( and thus not necessarily true) notion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:42 PM iano has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 62 of 300 (324024)
06-20-2006 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by iano
06-20-2006 5:40 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
It works.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:40 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:49 PM jar has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 63 of 300 (324032)
06-20-2006 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by jar
06-20-2006 5:39 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
Point is, you are calling yourself a xian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:52 PM Brian has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 64 of 300 (324034)
06-20-2006 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by jar
06-20-2006 5:42 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
For who? You? Or those who don't think it works for them?
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:53 PM iano has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 65 of 300 (324037)
06-20-2006 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Brian
06-20-2006 5:46 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
Point is, you are calling yourself a xian.
Finally, a correct statement. Yes, I am a Christian.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 5:46 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 4:39 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 66 of 300 (324039)
06-20-2006 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by iano
06-20-2006 5:49 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
For who? You? Or those who don't think it works for them?
WHAT?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 5:49 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:06 PM jar has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 67 of 300 (324046)
06-20-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Brian
06-20-2006 4:36 PM


Re: Christianity is .....a denomination?
Right, and I am merely interested in why that matters to this discussion.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:36 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 68 of 300 (324050)
06-20-2006 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Brian
06-20-2006 4:42 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
I misunderstood, sorry.
Do you know of any branches of Christianity that promote a faith that denies Jesus' divinity as a valid path to God?
Certainly a number of the "salvation by works" types of Christians do believe that a non-Christian can get into heaven. I don't know much about the detailed history of the Methodists but I have heard a number of Methodist ministers and churchgoers display that sentiment.
It certainly seems that it is not unheard of if possibly the minority view within Christianity.

Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:42 PM Brian has replied

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 Message 79 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 5:26 AM Jazzns has not replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 69 of 300 (324053)
06-20-2006 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
06-20-2006 5:53 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
"it works". It works for who? You? Presumably the answer here is yes.
But presumably it cannot work for people who find that such a notion doesn't at all work for them.
Doesn't that make this truth subjective?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 5:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 6:12 PM iano has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 300 (324058)
06-20-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by iano
06-20-2006 6:06 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
What?
"it works". It works for who? You? Presumably the answer here is yes.
But presumably it cannot work for people who find that such a notion doesn't at all work for them.
Doesn't that make this truth subjective?
What in the world are you talking about.
But presumably it cannot work for people who find that such a notion doesn't at all work for them.
Are you saying that loving others as you love yourself will not work for those who do not love others as they love themselves?
No shit Sherlock.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:06 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:23 PM jar has replied

  
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 71 of 300 (324062)
06-20-2006 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by jar
06-20-2006 6:12 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
Love GOD and love others as you love yourself is true regardless of the source.
I asked you how you decided this was true in a non-subjective sense.
You said:
It works
Could you describe
a) what it is about the statement which makes it work.
b) how something working makes it true? My lightswitch works - does that make it true?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 6:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 6:30 PM iano has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 72 of 300 (324066)
06-20-2006 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by iano
06-20-2006 6:23 PM


Re: Jesus Divinity
a) what it is about the statement which makes it work.
When you try to treat others as you would like to be treated, everybody wins.
b) how something working makes it true? My lightswitch works - does that make it true?
ROTFLMAO.
It makes it work. Who cares if it is TRUE.
That may well be the dumbest question I have EVER seen asked.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by iano, posted 06-20-2006 6:23 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by iano, posted 06-21-2006 5:39 AM jar has replied
 Message 82 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 7:47 AM jar has not replied
 Message 101 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 06-25-2006 12:21 AM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 73 of 300 (324152)
06-20-2006 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Brian
06-20-2006 4:42 PM


Valid christian teaching?
Brian writes:
What he did say is that following a faith that denies Jesus' divinity (Islam)is a valid path to salvation. Given that Jesus said the only way to the Father is through Jesus Himself, I cannot see how following Islam can be compatible with a very basic Christian teaching.
I suppose one can interpret parts of the Bible to support the view that only Christians have salvation, but taken in context I think that the Bible is fairly clear that it isn't those who hear the word, but those who do the will of the father that are considered righteous.
Just read through Matthew 25, (the sheep and the goats). It doesn't talk about doctrine. The sheep, are those who feed the hungry, house the homeless etc. Read through Romans 2. Jesus is concerned about the condition of or heart and not our doctrine. I will agree however that through prayer to Jesus our hearts are changed if we are truly open to him.
I think that jar might go further than I would in this area but I am in complete agreement with him that Jesus saves more than just Christians, and I'm also not convinced that all those who call themselves Christians have salvation.
Edited by GDR, : Edited to make the correction pointed out by jar

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Brian, posted 06-20-2006 4:42 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 11:42 PM GDR has replied
 Message 81 by Brian, posted 06-21-2006 5:55 AM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 74 of 300 (324158)
06-20-2006 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by GDR
06-20-2006 11:27 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Just read through Matthew 23, (the sheep and the goats).
Maybe Mat 25? Also note in that ALL the world is gathered. Not just Jews, not just Christians, not just believers. If you read it, the Goats are surprised they are rejected while the Sheep are surprised they are accepted. Now it would seem that a Non-Believer would not expect to be accepted by Jesus, where a believer might.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by GDR, posted 06-20-2006 11:27 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by GDR, posted 06-21-2006 1:23 AM jar has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 75 of 300 (324169)
06-21-2006 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by jar
06-20-2006 11:42 PM


Re: Valid christian teaching?
Thanks for the correction. Another quote is From Matthew 7.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 06-20-2006 11:42 PM jar has not replied

  
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