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Administrator (Idle past 2323 days) Posts: 2073 From: The Universe Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Belief Statement - jar | |||||||||||||||||||||||
iano Member (Idle past 1961 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Iano, in particular, seems to consider himself quite wretched. Compare: Paul in Romans: "Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death" Iano in EvC "Oh wretched man that I was, who has delivered me from this body of death" Don't let a mans struggle with sin fool you into missing the big picture. Life is rich when there are struggles to face. Not fun at times, granted. But rich. Edited by iano, : saved to deliver
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
English is somewhat limited in that we have a word love that can have such broad and often contradictory meanings. In this case I think the term love refers to an inate, internal and brutal honesty about yourself and the will to actually do something based on the analysis. You need to look at your own weaknesses and strengths and actually work to strengthen where weak and temper where strong.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I believe that to love yourself, you first have to know that you are not born with damned stamped on your forehead, that you are not condemned ... Seems to me it's far from love to tell yourself lies to make yourself feel better in the face of a genuine danger.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Don't let a mans struggle with sin fool you into missing the big picture. Life is rich when there are struggles to face. Not fun at times, granted. But rich. In other words iano loves his sorry self. I don't have any problem loving myself either. My problem is in loving all those others. Many of them are not very lovable, for one thing, and for another thing, I only have so much love in me too pass around. I have to be frugal.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The way everyone loves him/herself ought to be pretty obvious. We all look for comfort and try to avoid pain, we feel miserable when our egos are hurt etc. Pretty ordinary obvious stuff I would think.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
In this case I think the term love refers to an inate, internal and brutal honesty about yourself and the will to actually do something based on the analysis. You need to look at your own weaknesses and strengths and actually work to strengthen where weak and temper where strong. And we are supposed to "love" others like that? It doesn't sound very nice. I don't know if I want to go around being "brutally honest" with everyone. Now if you define love as "good will," it makes more sense to me. We wish ourselves well; in the same way, we should wish others well.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Seems to me it's far from love to tell yourself lies to make yourself feel better in the face of a genuine danger. It most certainly is. Why do you keep telling yourself the lie that you were born damned, that you are condemned? More to the point, why do you keep lying to others as well, particularly that YOU have some knowledge of how one gets saved when it is obvious from what you write that you are clueless? I believe GOD's message is really very simple. Love GOD and love others as you love yourself. You know right from wrong, now go out and try to do right and try not to do wrong. It really is that simple. Why can't you get it? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Now if you define love as "good will," it makes more sense to me. We wish ourselves well; in the same way, we should wish others well. EXACTLY.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why can't you get it? I'm a realist. You've got some kind of elaborate denial of reality going on there. Going to bite you in the end. Can't see how that's loving yourself.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And we are supposed to "love" others like that? It doesn't sound very nice. I don't know if I want to go around being "brutally honest" with everyone. I don't think I ever said you should be brutally honest with everyone, but it is probably good to be brutally honest about everyone. You asked me how one should love oneself, then in a typical fundie footdance changed the goalposts. It is trying. Good will is certainly part of the equation, but only part. There are times when good will can be doing something that the other person might not see as all that good. Life is not a setpiece. We move through life trying our best. We will always be working from insufficient and incomplete knowledge. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I'm a realist. You've got some kind of elaborate denial of reality going on there. Going to bite you in the end. Can't see how that's loving yourself. Okay. No problem. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
I don't think I ever said you should be brutally honest with everyone, but it is probably good to be brutally honest about everyone. You asked me how one should love oneself, then in a typical fundie footdance changed the goalposts I don't know about this fundie stuff, since I'm no fundie, but I thought the rule was that we were to love others as we love ourselves. I took that to mean that we are to love others in the same way that we love ourselves. (Incidentally, the rule seems to me impossible to carry out).
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
(Incidentally, the rule seems to me impossible to carry out). Good observation. Being "but flesh" it is beyond us. But it's not impossible for Christ. Attaching ourselves to Him makes it possible to fulfill all His commands, at first by His own virtues imputed to us, and hopefully more and more in reality as we stick with Him.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I don't know about this fundie stuff, since I'm no fundie, but I thought the rule was that we were to love others as we love ourselves. I took that to mean that we are to love others in the same way that we love ourselves. Again the vagries of the english language. My understanding is that I am charged to love myself first. That includes trying to determine those areas where I am weak and to try to improve those, to determine my strengths and try to temper them. As I said, it does not mean being brutally honest with others, but it is a good idea to be brutally honest about others as well. Once you work to get your house in order, look around to see what you can do for others. As I hav esaid hetre many times, it is not even the big things, but just those common little everyday things you can do. Help someone reach something on a high shelf, help them unload their shopping cart at the checkout line, let the lady with three kids in tow go ahead of you, even if it does mean your ice cream gets soft before you get it home.
(Incidentally, the rule seems to me impossible to carry out). I have never said it is easy, it isn't. It is hard and it is work. We are but humans and we will likely fail. That is why we will be judged individually on how well we tried. That is why we try to be honest with our selves and to realize when we do fail to do our best, to acknowledge that failure and to try to do better in the future. That is why I posted the Confession way back in Message 11.
Most merciful God,we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart; we have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We are truly sorry and we humbly repent. For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ, have mercy on us and forgive us; that we may delight in your will, and walk in your ways, to the glory of your Name. Amen. It really is that simple though. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
My understanding is that I am charged to love myself first. That includes trying to determine those areas where I am weak and to try to improve those, to determine my strengths and try to temper them. As I said, it does not mean being brutally honest with others, but it is a good idea to be brutally honest about others as well. Once you work to get your house in order, look around to see what you can do for others. I don't see how you get all that out of the word "as."
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