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Author Topic:   Adam was created on the 3rd day
graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 1 of 233 (336183)
07-28-2006 7:28 PM


(Special Note: This is a long topic. If you read no further, please see reply by Humble Pie Message 210. Very well drawn out and thoroughly explained.)
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
The second part of this verse begins with "in the day". Notice the heavens and earth have been made, but there is no mention of all the host of them. This is talking about a particular day in which both the heavens and the earth have been completed.
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
There was no plants yet (for there was no rain) and no man. Basicly all there was was the sold ground.
Gen 2:6-7 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
After the rain, the first thing God did was create flesh man (of the earth). This was before any plants were created.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Here we have the first vegetation on the earth, planted in the garden of Eden. Next the man is placed in the Garden.
God makes Adam on the 3rd day, followed by the vegetation. God places him in the garden. Then God makes fish and animals on the 5th and 6th day. God brings them to Adam so he could name them. Then God makes man into the image of God.
There are no contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2. When put together, they complement one another... each filling in the details of the other.
Creation order:
1. Heavens, including sun, moon and stars.
2. Earth, the separation of the land and seas.
3. Hydrologic cycle begins, rain.
4. Flesh man created from the ground(in God's likeness).
5. Garden planted, vegetation. shelter for man.
6. Clouds break up, sun, moon and stars appear. time and direction for man.
7. Sea creatures and birds created.
8. Land animals created.
9. All the animals brought to Adam for naming.
10. Man made male and female, Eve created. Man made in the image of God. (note: there is a difference between image and likeness)
11. God rests, have you entered His rest? (There is no closing of day 7)
Edited by graft2vine, : Added special note

Replies to this message:
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 Message 65 by Juraikken, posted 04-15-2007 8:35 PM graft2vine has replied
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 Message 150 by Mikael Fivel, posted 07-26-2007 1:58 PM graft2vine has replied
 Message 153 by IamJoseph, posted 07-30-2007 8:21 AM graft2vine has replied
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AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 233 (336201)
07-28-2006 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by graft2vine
07-28-2006 7:28 PM


Hi Graft2vine. Welcome to EvC. This subject has been discussed a number of times, but you pose a question/topic which is unique so far as I can remember so I would promote it. We like for the topic author to participate some in the thread with responses rather than to simply do one post and disappear as some newbies do. What is your intention regarding participation?
Abe: Imo this would be suitable for The Bible in Accuracy and Innerancy forum.
Edited by AdminBuzsaw, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by graft2vine, posted 07-28-2006 7:28 PM graft2vine has replied

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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 3 of 233 (336206)
07-28-2006 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminBuzsaw
07-28-2006 9:00 PM


Hi Buzz,
No I won't be skipping out on this thread. Thanks!

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 Message 2 by AdminBuzsaw, posted 07-28-2006 9:00 PM AdminBuzsaw has not replied

  
AdminBuzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 233 (336221)
07-28-2006 10:13 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 233 (336227)
07-28-2006 10:37 PM


Re: No contradiction.
Hi again G2V. I need to get off the computer for now and hope to get back on this tomorrow afternoon or so. You're reading stuff into your interpretation which is not there in context, imo. Chapter two is entirely compatable with chapter one. Chapter one itemizes the work of each day. Chapter two condenses some of the work of these days and hones in on the events relative to man. The purpose of chapter two is not to address the days perse. It's an interesting and thought provocative topic.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Deleted error

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 6 of 233 (336242)
07-29-2006 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by graft2vine
07-28-2006 7:28 PM


The second part of this verse begins with "in the day".
(b'yom -- "in the day") is a common hebrew idiom. it simply means "when." this is the one of only two usages where "day" does not refer to either a literal day, or daytime. the other usage is as "year" in genealogies.
um, maybe i'll address the rest of your post later. but this is certainly a new one.
(There is no closing of day 7)
yes there is. genesis 2:3.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by graft2vine, posted 07-29-2006 8:24 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 115 by Reserve, posted 04-28-2007 8:12 AM arachnophilia has replied

  
graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 7 of 233 (336275)
07-29-2006 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Buzsaw
07-28-2006 10:37 PM


Re: No contradiction.
Hi Buz,
Chapter two is entirely compatable with chapter one. Chapter one itemizes the work of each day. Chapter two condenses some of the work of these days and hones in on the events relative to man. The purpose of chapter two is not to address the days perse.
I agree, each account gives more details that the other does not. The focus of chapter one is the days, and in chapter two the focus is the creation of man. But the creation of man should not contradict the order of events in Genesis one. Namely the implication that man was created first, then the plants and the animals.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by purpledawn, posted 07-29-2006 9:05 AM graft2vine has replied
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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 8 of 233 (336280)
07-29-2006 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by arachnophilia
07-29-2006 1:43 AM


Hi Arach,
We have "in the day" establishing a time period that is described in what follows. The day is defined by that description. This can be lined up with what was happening on the third day. I agree, it does not have to refer to a literal 24 hour day, but just establishing a particular point in time.
um, maybe i'll address the rest of your post later. but this is certainly a new one.
Look forward to hearing your thoughts! Yes, as far as I know this is unique... I have never heard it from any man.
yes there is. genesis 2:3.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
There is no closing as in, "And the evening and the morning were the seventh day."

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 Message 6 by arachnophilia, posted 07-29-2006 1:43 AM arachnophilia has replied

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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 9 of 233 (336283)
07-29-2006 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by graft2vine
07-29-2006 7:57 AM


Garden of Eden First
quote:
But the creation of man should not contradict the order of events in Genesis one. Namely the implication that man was created first, then the plants and the animals.
Actually the order of events in Genesis 1 (written by a priest) should not contradict the creation of man (Garden of Eden story).
The author of Genesis 1 had the Adam and Eve story to work from. The focus of Genesis 2 is the Garden of Eden, Adam, and Eve; not the specifics of creation.
So Genesis 1 is the order in which creation took place from the author's perspective after reading the story of the Garden. Putting the creation of Adam on day 3 would conflict with the author of Genesis 1.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 10 of 233 (336372)
07-29-2006 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by purpledawn
07-29-2006 9:05 AM


Re: Garden of Eden First
Hi Purpledawn,
By stating such, the inverse of what I said, are you saying that the Garden of Eden story takes precedence over Genesis 1? Please clarify. If that is the case, one would be the accurate account and the other in error.
I don't believe that the case, one does not take presedence over the other, but they complement one another and add details.
I am short on time at the moment, but will later give reason why man is not mentioned on day 3 in Genesis 1 account.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by purpledawn, posted 07-29-2006 6:51 PM graft2vine has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 11 of 233 (336380)
07-29-2006 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by graft2vine
07-29-2006 8:24 AM


Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
There is no closing as in, "And the evening and the morning were the seventh day."
because god took the whole day off. shabat is different, special.


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purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 12 of 233 (336433)
07-29-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by graft2vine
07-29-2006 3:02 PM


Re: Garden of Eden First
quote:
By stating such, the inverse of what I said, are you saying that the Garden of Eden story takes precedence over Genesis 1? Please clarify. If that is the case, one would be the accurate account and the other in error.
The Garden of Eden story existed first (Documentary Hypothesis). I'm not sure that that means it takes precedence, but it supposedly came first.
The Garden of Eden Story was probably written before 722 BCE while the kingdoms were separate and Genesis 1 is considered to be written between 722 BCE and 609 BCE. IOW, after the fall of the Northern Kingdom.
An author has a purpose in his/her writing. Each of these authors had a different purpose. I don't see that a different purpose makes one in error.
The Garden of Eden story does not read as a story written to give the order in which things were considered to be created. Genesis 1 does.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by graft2vine, posted 07-29-2006 3:02 PM graft2vine has replied

Replies to this message:
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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 13 of 233 (336933)
07-31-2006 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by purpledawn
07-29-2006 6:51 PM


Why adam not mentioned on the third day
Genesis 1 and 2 are of the same order. One fills in the gaps of the other. What Genesis 1 does is establish the order of when the creation of things were completed... often through the use of "it was good". Adam was formed on the third day, but his creation was not complete... he was an unfinished vessel.
Jer 18:4-6 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
The first vessel was destroyed, the second vessel was good. The second vessel is the one created on the 6th day. There is both the first and second creation of Adam.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
The first Adam was made in the likeness of God, the second Adam was made in the image of God.
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Jesus IS the image of God!
So what is the difference between the likeness and the image?
You likeness is for example the person standing next to you. The are human, they have arms and legs like you... you can compare yourself to them... you can both do the same things. Your image is the person standing in the mirror. Your image has all the features of your likeness except for one. When you raise your arm your image raises his arm, whereas your likeness can raise his arm but does not have to. Your likeness has his own will! Your image does not!
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Have you yet been made in the image of God, or are you still in his likeness?
Another (concerning Adam not being mentioned) is with the Heavens. The heavens created on the first day included the sun and the moon and the stars, but they are not mentioned until the 4th day. Only the light was good on the first day. The entire purpose of the sun, moon and stars was not fulfilled until the fourth day (for signs and seasons) in ADDITION to giving light on the earth and separating between day and night.
On day 1 only the light is mentioned, and on day 3 only the earth was mentioned. But both the Sun (the source of the light) and Man (made from the earth) were there on those days.

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graft2vine
Member (Idle past 4955 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 07-27-2006


Message 14 of 233 (336936)
07-31-2006 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by graft2vine
07-31-2006 1:47 PM


after our likeness
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
"after our likeness" or as is our likeness. This is saying, Let us make man in the image of God, after the likeness. Man has already been made in the likeness first, let us make man in the image second (or after) the likeness (which has already been established).
If God was creating in both image and likeness on the 6th day, then the word "and" should have been used, not "as" or "after".

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 233 (336944)
07-31-2006 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by graft2vine
07-31-2006 1:47 PM


Re: Why adam not mentioned on the third day
graft2vine writes:
So what is the difference between the likeness and the image?
You likeness is for example the person standing next to you. The are human, they have arms and legs like you... you can compare yourself to them... you can both do the same things. Your image is the person standing in the mirror.
I've never heard the word "likeness" used that way. A "likeness" of somebody is a representation - a painting or a photograph - an image.
Your image has all the features of your likeness except for one. When you raise your arm your image raises his arm, whereas your likeness can raise his arm but does not have to.
A "likeness" - a painting or photograph - can't raise its arm.
Your likeness has his own will!
Only if you make up your own definition for "likeness".

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This message is a reply to:
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