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Author Topic:   Religious Right and Evangelicals
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 46 of 50 (336788)
07-30-2006 10:10 PM


can someone explain?
I'm sorry if I just haven't been reading carefully enough, but I have read through this thread and haven't yet figured out which Christians used to support abortion. Has that been explained clearly somewhere?

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 47 of 50 (336790)
07-30-2006 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
07-30-2006 9:58 PM


Re: Religion and the Civil Rights Movement
Faith writes:
How many of these churches were Southern churches rather than northern or western? That is, I think this was predominantly a Southern phenomenon, not a Christian phenomenon, but perhaps you can correct me.
No, it was most definitely not just a Southern phenomenon. As I said in the earlier post:
quote:
It was not just a southern phenomena either. The same thing was happening in Chicago and Boston and St. Louis and Newark and Hoboken and Philadelphia and Detroit.
The opposition was not relegated to one area, one sect, one Church. It was in the North and the South and the East and the West. In Boston the people on the streets were as likely to be good Roman Catholics, in Savannah more likely to be good Baptists.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 07-30-2006 9:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 48 of 50 (336798)
07-30-2006 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by randman
07-30-2006 9:10 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
So white people are part of "the church" and blacks are not?
no. white christians were not involved in the civil rights movement as a rule. black christians were involved in the civil rights movement because they were black, not because they were christians. they used the words of christ as their support.
Moreover, on what basis do you have to make the claim that conservative, white Christian voters were pro-abortion when it became legal?
what is this "pro-abortion" you speak of? you think people want this legal for shits and giggles?
well. to tell you the truth, after however long it's been since you replied of looking on the internet and 75 search pages, all i can find are pages written by coalition members in the last 5 years. there's nothing with dates of anything before about 1986. except this (which is mirrored {read stolen} onto wiki).
quote:
Illegal Abortion
Many of us do not know what it was like to need an abortion before legalization. Women who could afford to pay skilled doctors or go to another country had the safest and easiest abortions. Most women found it difficult if not impossible to arrange and pay for abortions in medical settings.
With one exception, the doctors whom I asked for an abortion treated me with contempt, their attitudes ranging from hostile to insulting. One said to me, ``You tramps like to break the rules, but when you get caught you all come crawling for help in the same way.''
The secret world of illegal abortion was mostly frightening and expensive. Although there were skilled and dedicated laywomen and doctors who performed safe, illegal abortions, most illegal abortionists, doctors, and those who claimed to be doctors cared only about being well rewarded for their trouble. In the 1960s, abortionists often turned women away if they could not pay $1,000 or more in cash. Some male abortionists insisted on having sexual relations before the abortion.
Abortionists emphasized speed and their own protection. They often didn't use anesthesia because it took too long for women to recover, and they wanted women out of the office as quickly as possible. Some abortionists were rough and sadistic. Almost no one took adequate precautions against hemorrhage or infection.
Typically, the abortionist would forbid the woman to contact him or her again. Often she wouldn't know his or her real name. If a complication occurred, harassment by the law was a frightening possibility. The need for secrecy isolated women having abortions and those providing them.
In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time.
Poor women and women of color ran the greatest risks with illegal abortions. In 1969, 75% of the women who died from abortions (most of them illegal) were women of color. Of all legal abortions in that year, 90% were performed on white private patients.
HISTORY OF ABORTION
and here are some current stats
Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions
just in case you thought that all or most abortions were recognizable babies that resemble the horror pictures that the coalition put out.
so. instead, i called my mom to interview her. my mom was born in 1951 and was 15 in 1966. she heard nothing about abortion until around then when she began to hear that about 100,000 women a year got illegal abortions. she heard that 1/3 of those women ended up in the emergency room. half of those women died.
the only christian voice she heard at all was that something had to be done about these butchers that murdered women. now, mind you. in the 1960s, her understanding was that 100,000 people had died in the holocaust in the whole thing. so, her understanding was that more women died every year in the us than in the whole of the holocaust. we now know that both numbers are higher.
she never heard anything negative about abortion from any christian until a college speech class when some crazy braod started throwing up dead baby pictures and claimed that no one ever had an illegal abortion and anyone who said otherwise or suggested that anyone ever died of one was lying.
my mom never heard anything from any religious leader against abortion until the 80s. shortly after she had a miscarriage and when she was pregnant with my older brother she was told she should go march in the right to life parade in california. she asked whether anyone cared about her baby that died and was told that he baby died naturally and didn't matter.
now. the real issue of women's health is still not protected. legalization came the wrong way. legalization came without restriction and without regard to health and safety. also, women specific studies are very recent and the standard treatment for any feminine condition is hysterectomy. and often in the case of treatments for prolapse they fail to solve the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by randman, posted 07-30-2006 9:10 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 07-31-2006 4:20 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 49 of 50 (336969)
07-31-2006 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by macaroniandcheese
07-30-2006 11:32 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
Yea well, I am not as old as your Mom and I can remember the hoopla against Roe vs Wade in the 70s by the religious right. Moreover, the 100K per year with thousands dying was a calculated lie. The guy that produced those numbers later recanted and stated he lied to push for legalization.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-30-2006 11:32 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-31-2006 4:25 PM randman has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 50 of 50 (336972)
07-31-2006 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by randman
07-31-2006 4:20 PM


Re: inconsistency and false gospel?
i did not suggest this was demonstrable proof. it is hearsay from an old widow woman.
but. you certainly don't seem interested in women's health either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by randman, posted 07-31-2006 4:20 PM randman has not replied

  
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