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| Author | Topic: The Unacknowledged Accuracy of Genesis 1 | |||||||||||||||||||||||
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days)  Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Hi Arach,
Thanks for the info. Hope you don't mind my jumping in on that one, but then I figured there was plenty of nonsense to keep a number of us busy.  Always a pleasure watching you work. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
Thank you for the kind words.
It feels like flattery, - but then - I know it true.  Seriously though, I defer to and often rely upon your knowledge of Hebrew. As for my knowledge of theology and the text - that comes in part from a little formal education and a lot of hitting the books. I could wish for another lifetime to spend in pursuit of my biblical hobby.
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
danny writes: Doctrbill, as I understand it, you are saying that the firmament can be equated with the edge of the universe, As one commentary puts it: quote: it is the expanse (and expansion (?) of the universe). Expanse, yes but only in the sense of spaciousness. The Hebrew word is an industrial technical term meaning: hammered out and in other places the Heaven is said to be solid like a cast metal mirror.
In my own interpretation of the verse "God made the firmament, and separated the water under the firmament from the water above it" I have asked the question - How can there be water 'above' the firmament? To me this indicates something that stands outside the universe. I have figured that the only possible way for this to occur is if something existed BEFORE the universe was created, only then can it be said to be outside or 'above' the firmament. OK.
Genesis is quite specific that there was indeed such a situation - "The earth was a vast waste, darkness covered the deep, and the spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water." Here we are specifically told that there were at least two elememts that existed before the creation of the universe - the spirit of God and the water (this must surely be a reference to the waters 'above' the firmament.) All the waters, I think.
The next step of pondering the above verse was asking - How can the firmament 'separate' the waters above the firmament from the waters below? I view the waters below the firmament as the energy that initially poured into the newly created universe (although I'm not sure whether the Hebrew word for water can be used in this sense), Sounds like you may be getting the cart ahead of the horse. We are talking about Act Two of Genesis Week and you speak of the “newly created universe” already. And, as far as I know, ancient philosophers did not use the word water to describe energy. They did, however, have a liquid energy source (naptha) which may have been loosely, or poetically, described as “water.”
whereas the waters above the firmament must be viewed as some kind of energy that could exist in a state where there was no physical space. Seems to me that you can’t manipulate something which occupies “no physical space.” I mean: Where is it? With what is it combined? How do you extract it, separate it, put it in its place?
As mentioned earlier I view the firmament, not only as the expanse of the universe but also it's expansion. You are welcome to your view, of course, but before you build further on the word firmament, you should really look it up in a dictionary, keeping in mind that this word hails from at least 405 AD when Jerome produced the Latin Vulgate Bible. Firmament implies limitation, NOT expansion.
When the universe was first created there were only two elements at play, the initial energy and expansion. As the universe expanded it cooled, as it cooled the initial energy changed 'forms' to make sub-atomic particles, then atoms, then the first elements (hydrogen etc), then gases, liquids, solids etc and on and on until we have todays visible universe. So, the firmament (expansion) separates the waters (various 'forms' of energy) by cooling the universe down as it expands. A nice scenario; if you don’t care what you say. I agree that we should put our imaginations to it and try to find a way for people to see it together. That is what I have attempted to do. Beginning at about twenty years of age, I set out to explain and legitimize the holy scripture to a world of unbelievers. In the process, I learned that I did NOT, in the beginning, understand it myself. Long story short: I now seek to explain the holy scripture to believers and unbelievers. Theology is the science of Dominion. - - - My God is your god's Boss - - -
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doctrbill Member (Idle past 2786 days) Posts: 1174 From: Eugene, Oregon, USA Joined: |
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