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Author Topic:   Believers... Question?
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 45 (356823)
10-16-2006 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Archer Opteryx
10-15-2006 8:13 AM


Re: life is but a dream
I've always taken an intrest to Buddhism, a few of my friends are; they are quite expressive and calm people.

This message is a reply to:
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nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 45 (356824)
10-16-2006 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Chiroptera
10-15-2006 3:06 PM


To mock them? I didn't think that God would of allowed that... if you're in heaven and everything is so holy... why would you stoop to the levels of the sinners? *sigh* Even if Bob kicked Tom because he was weaker and smaller, does that mean Bob needs eternal damnation?

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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 33 of 45 (356828)
10-16-2006 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by nyenye
10-14-2006 7:31 PM


I definitely with RiverRat on this one. He knows that the spirit of truth causes him to say the truth. He'll never be caused to judge people, by the spirit of lies.
If I were to get in a crash with my best friend tonight, and we both died; I believed in God and he didn't. I went to heaven and he went to hell; how could I be happy in heaven without my friend?
That this is believe by any believer, appauls me.
Even when I was a YEC I took RiverRat's stance. But even then it annoyed me that people would think that I would believe in this hypothetic.
My personal theology isn't based on faith or works. So there goes that dichotomy!
Infact, neither have got anything to do with it.
My own theology would have it that heaven and hell, as concepts are a pretty "unknown" area, and warped beyond any fact, by modern and popular Christian theology.
I can only offer what I do believe is the case;
1. Hell is created for sinners.
2. This doesn't include the forgiveable course of a person's life.
To expand: I don't believe God means that one should burn forever, for being born and making mistakes, and believing certain things.
To expand further; A person is born, tries to get through life and survive, doesn't believe any particular thing, and then dies having made his fair share of mistakes and minor wrongs like we all do. Such a person, in my theology, is "righteouss". Whether a believer or not.
Also, Christ said, "I didn't come to call the righteouss". So this means there are righteouss people. Those people are "normal people who are basically "good".
3. People who go to hell are sinners such as , murderers, rapists, tyrants, ardent disbelievers in Christ (this is not an atheist, but a violent enforcer).
Believers will accuse me now of making up my own religion, but I'm not - I'm only thinking from the facts I've been given. Atleast my theology makes logical sense. The facts my evaluation uses, includes contradictory texts, therefore I have pulled out of making sense of it as an accurate text, and moved on to the "gist" of what it is trying to say.
Any believer who accuses me, is no better. His theology is just as bad or good, it's just that his is the popular modern one made by people with lower IQs than me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by nyenye, posted 10-14-2006 7:31 PM nyenye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Zawi
Member (Idle past 3620 days)
Posts: 126
From: UK
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 34 of 45 (356845)
10-16-2006 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by nyenye
10-14-2006 11:18 PM


Life is a vacation from death
When I take a week's vacation to somewhere nice, I try not to rue the fact that my holiday is a fleeting moment and that in a week's time, I'll no longer be a part of this cool holiday stuff. Same with life: it's fleeting for sure, but why waste this amazing opportunity to do cool life stuff?
Edited by Zawinul, : No reason given.

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ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5152 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 35 of 45 (356846)
10-16-2006 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tal
10-15-2006 1:35 AM


DEAR tal...
I think you will find that TIME is the fourth dimention.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tal, posted 10-15-2006 1:35 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Tal, posted 10-19-2006 9:34 PM ohnhai has not replied

  
nyenye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 45 (356959)
10-16-2006 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by mike the wiz
10-16-2006 8:52 AM


I agree with you, I don't think our God is that evil to damn someone for just not believing, but a rapist/murderers who knows right from wrong, should be punsihed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by mike the wiz, posted 10-16-2006 8:52 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5667 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 37 of 45 (357595)
10-19-2006 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ohnhai
10-16-2006 11:13 AM


Time is not a demension.
A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the futur
Time is simply something percieved by us because our planet rotates around the sun.

Next time I am too lazy, next time I am too tired, Next time I don't have enough[/url] time....

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 42 by nator, posted 10-24-2006 9:37 AM Tal has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 38 of 45 (357598)
10-19-2006 9:56 PM


Since this seems to be a songs of heaven thread...
It's Christmas in Heaven.
All the children sing.
It's Christmas in Heaven.
Hark. Hark. Those church bells ring.
It's Christmas in Heaven.
The snow falls from the sky,
But it's nice and warm, and everyone
Looks smart and wears a tie.
It's Christmas in Heaven.
There's great films on TV:
'The Sound of Music' twice an hour
And 'Jaws' One, Two, and Three.
There's gifts for all the family.
There's toiletries and trains.
There's Sony Walkman Headphone sets
And the latest video games.
It's Christmas! It's Christmas in Heaven!
Hip hip hip hip hip hooray!
Every single day
Is Christmas day!
It's Christmas! It's Christmas in Heaven!
Hip hip hip hip hip hooray!
Every single day
Is Christmas day!

Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin Franklin

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3973
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 39 of 45 (357602)
10-19-2006 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by anglagard
10-15-2006 8:14 AM


Re: Reminds Me of a Similar Perspective
Simply Red, first album, had a great cover of The Talking Heads' "Heaven": I love 'em both.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.
-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732-1799)
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 406 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 40 of 45 (358410)
10-23-2006 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by nator
10-15-2006 7:49 AM


In the begining?
{ABE}
A day is like a thousand years to God
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 41 of 45 (358412)
10-23-2006 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tal
10-19-2006 9:34 PM


Time Out
Time is simply something percieved by us because our planet rotates around the sun
So with no-one here to witness it there is no such thing as time in your view? What happened to the universe before we were around to witness our miniscule part of it?
The OP is about what happens to non believers when they die. Most mainstream religions seem to have elements of their scripture that strongly declare the damnation of disbelievers.
It seems that any literal interpretation of these holy texts would require the belief that non believers would go to some sort of hell.
It seems difficult to me to reconcile the existence of any sort of merciful God with any sort of hell.
Even the individuals whose actions are considered most evil rarely (if ever?) actually perceive their own actions as evil. Hitler almost certainly genuinely believed his atrocious actions to be the right thing to do in his own mind.
Is anyone truly evil unless they know and intend to do evil?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Tal, posted 10-19-2006 9:34 PM Tal has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2160 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 42 of 45 (358498)
10-24-2006 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tal
10-19-2006 9:34 PM


I'd still really like to know where in the Bible the fourth dimension is mentioned.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Tal, posted 10-19-2006 9:34 PM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Tal, posted 10-26-2006 3:05 PM nator has not replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5667 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 43 of 45 (359065)
10-26-2006 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by nator
10-24-2006 9:37 AM


The book of Daniel would be a good place to start.

Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

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 Message 42 by nator, posted 10-24-2006 9:37 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by MangyTiger, posted 10-26-2006 7:19 PM Tal has not replied

  
MangyTiger
Member (Idle past 6344 days)
Posts: 989
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 07-30-2004


Message 44 of 45 (359136)
10-26-2006 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Tal
10-26-2006 3:05 PM


Throw us a bone!
The book of Daniel would be a good place to start.
For those of us not overly familiar with the Bible could you provide a Chapter and Verse (or several )?
Thanks.

Oops! Wrong Planet

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4320
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 45 of 45 (359180)
10-26-2006 10:04 PM


Eternity in heaven would be hell
If I'm wrong and there is an afterlife in heaven with all those churchies then I would rather go to hell! The thought of spending eternity with people I cannot stand in this life would be true torture. If our essence continues on after our death with our memories and sense of self, wouldn't paradise get really boring after a while, with nothing left to strive for?
I have always wondered what all those preachers are going to do in heaven. Who will they preach to?
I suppose I can keep myself busy writing complaints about God's perverted sense of humor. Hemorrhoids, toothaches, acne.....oh yeah, real funny God!
I'm going to Hell

  
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