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Author Topic:   UCLA student tased multiple times... pointless police violence?
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 142 (364613)
11-18-2006 7:24 PM


kcra
dailybruin
LATimes
quote:
Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.
No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.
At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.
The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.
The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.
It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.
UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.
Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.
As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.
"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.
As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.
Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.
"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."
Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.
Incidently, a student managed to capture it on his cell phone video. You can watch ithere or here.
I have several questions. Aren't we protected by the 4th amendment from unreasonable search and seizure? The student was leaving the library when he was held back and tased. Even though the student was yelling "don't touch me", do you think using a taser on a hand cuffed student multiple times is a little excessive?
But the thing I am most puzzled about is that the police were ordering him to stand up after he was tased the first time and with his hands cuffed in the back. I have always been under the impression that a taser gun temporarily incapacitates you so you wouldn't be able to "fight back". Could he have stood up with both his hands cuffed on his back and a few seconds after he's been tased?
The police commented that the kid was able to walk out of the station after the whole thing so clearly he was not "harmed". Does tha mean that I can go over to my next door neighbor and punch him in the face? He's a big man and I'm sure he'd be able to walk around after I punched him.
Edited by gasby, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by nwr, posted 11-18-2006 7:31 PM Taz has not replied
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 Message 4 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 9:56 PM Taz has not replied
 Message 24 by Modulous, posted 11-19-2006 12:03 AM Taz has not replied
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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 12 of 142 (364638)
11-18-2006 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 10:50 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
nemesis writes:
How would you have handled it if you asked the man to leave and he didn't leave? Diplomacy failed, so what other alternatives exist?
But according to both the witnesses' accounts and the police's, he was leaving the library when he was held back. In this particular case, diplomacy did win.
I don't think anyone is here to argue that the kid wasn't annoying and playing the passive agressive game. What people like me don't understand is the use of taser at least 4 times being a necessary thing in this case. While I haven't been tased before, I've been electricuted. It wasn't a pleasant experience. Scratch that. It was a painful experience.
Ok, assuming he had enough time to regain his motor control after the first tase but decided to keep lying on the floor. I noticed that the officers were ordering him to get up while tasing him again and again. I thought the whole point of a taser gun is to incapacitate a person, not make his legs more mobile.
Excessive force?

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 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 10:50 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:28 PM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 31 of 142 (364664)
11-19-2006 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
11-18-2006 11:28 PM


Re: Reviewing the video
nemesis writes:
So, he was leaving, but then they grabbed him to stop him from leaving, then they decided to tase him and repeat 79 times to get up? That doesn't seem to make much sense.
Don't argue with me. Argue with the witnesses.
If he was playing his little games, then wouldn't that suggest that he had no intention of leaving? Wouldn't that indicate that he just wanted to put on a big show? You saw yourself how many different ways he was asked to leave. He didn't want to. He wanted to play a game.
Repeating what I said serves what purpose?
Well, now that you are going into law enforcement, as a prerequisite, you are going to have to get tased and pepper foam several times in your career. The reason why is so that LE officers will understand and be able to empathize with a suspect instead of just going rogue and indiscriminately tasing people. Nobody likes being electrocuted. And often, just the threat of it alone is able to gain the compliance of the offender. The reason they use it, is because they won't like it. Of course they don't like it. That's the whole point. Pain, unfortunately, is a greater motivator for some hard-headed offenders.
The student may have been hard-headed, but I beg to differ whether it warranted the use of taser at least 4 times.
It only incapacitates someone while you are employing it. Unless you have a medical condition, there is no reason why you won't be able to regain your motor functions.
That's not what I was pointing out. I was pointing out the fact that they were ordering him to get up while they were tasing him. Even if he was playing the passive agressive game, I still don't agree that tasing him at least 4 times was a necessary thing.
I can almost guarantee that, per the law, the officers were justified. I personally would not have employed the taser until much later. But then again, we don't know what transpired beforehand. You can hear him saying, "Get your hands off of me!" and then heard rustling. He might have made an erratic movement or went to strike the officers. I don't know. They also might have been in there 10 minutes trying to get him to leave of his own volition. I don't know for sure. All I know is what I saw and heard.
And if you cared to read my posts more carefully, you'd know that I haven't commented on the initial shock. What I've been trying to figure out is the necessity for a second, third, fourth, and may be fifth time while he was handcuffed on the floor.
I honestly don't know how the officers could have felt threatened by a handcuffed, incapacitated person on the floor.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-18-2006 11:28 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-19-2006 1:48 AM Taz has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 36 of 142 (364675)
11-19-2006 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
11-19-2006 1:48 AM


Re: Reviewing the video
nemesis writes:
Well, handcuffing a person is a defensive maneuver. I've fought handcuffed people before. Its not always an easy thing. But, regardless, the issue is about this particular case. This man didn't seem to pose an immediate physical threat as far as I could tell from the video. It was just a spoiled little emo kid. I would have picked him up though. And, if I were there, I would have ordered him to not tase him after the initial one because it seems they had him cuffed after the first one.
A simple yes or no. Do you or do you not agree that shocking him that many times all the while he was handcuffed on the floor was excessive force?

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-19-2006 1:48 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 88 of 142 (366606)
11-28-2006 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by mick
11-28-2006 7:36 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
I'd have to go with crashfrog on this. The reason there is such an outcry about this is because many people, including myself, are convinced that excessive force was used against a non-violent person. If the surrounding students were to step up and bash the cops on the head, it would have turned into an excuse for the cops to carry out more excessive force without being criticized. It may surprise you to know, but they are authorized to use lethal force if they felt threatened, and a bunch of students jumping on top of these cops would have been perceived as very threatening.
There is a time and place for everything, including non-passive protest. This ain't one of those times.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 98 of 142 (366660)
11-28-2006 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by mick
11-28-2006 8:21 PM


Re: "fuck the police"
I do not appreciate being bunched together with bat. Can't you see I'm a tasmanian devil?
Edited by gasby, : No reason given.

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