castor oil packs-real treatment or quackery?

In a recent chat session about naturopathy, purpledawn mentioned that her naturopath is treating her assumed elevated estrogen levels by treating her liver, by having her use castor oil packs.As far as I can gather, a towel is soaked in castor oil and is laid on the skin over the liver. Supposedly, the castor oil soaks through the skin and gets into the liver where it finds the exess estrogen there and carries it out of the body.Needless to say, I found this scenario quite astonishing.Many questions came to my mind immediately, and I am wondering if PD has asked them of her Naturopath.The questions I would have if a naturopath told me to do that would be:How do you know I have estrogen above normal levels without taking a blood test?Is there any proof that castor oil is absorbed through the outer layer of skin to the underlying tissues?If so, how does the castor oil get directly to the liver without doing anything else to any other tissues?How does the castor oil know to leave the healthy amount of estrogen in my ovaries and take only the exess in my liver?If we haven't done any urine or blood tests to determine what my estrogen levels were before starting the castor oil packs, during use, and after stopping them, how can we know if my hormone levels were changing?If we aren't doing blood or urine tests, how do we know that the castor oil is being absorbed into my system?If my liver gets "cleaned" of the exess estrogen, how do I know without a blood test if my estrogen levels are back to normal?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

---

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool."- Richard Feynman"Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends! Well I say there are some things we don't want to know! Important things!"
- Ned Flanders

It's cool.

quote:

---

Castor oil is used topically, in a castor oil pack, to enhance the functioning of the lymphatic system and the immune system. It is also a powerful detoxifier, able to draw toxins out of the body from as far as 10cm down.

---

So, how do they know this? What research or experiemnt or tests are they basing this on?Like, how did they arrive at the 10cm figure?I's be happy to write to the authors.

quote:

---

I notice that most of what anyone has found on the internet pretty much says that Castor Oil Packs have not been researched enough to know exactly how they work.

---

Actually, they haven't been researched enough to know if they work at all.

Can you please explain what you mean when you say that the references "pertain" to those statements?Meaning, are there citations in the book to the scientific literature after claims such as "castor oil packs have been shown to do X"?How specific are the references?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

quote:

---

I notice that most of what anyone has found on the internet pretty much says that Castor Oil Packs have not been researched enough to know exactly how they work.

---

...or if they work at all.I am not sure why you persist in using the wording "how they work" when describing castor oil packs.Why do you make the assumption that they have any effect whatsoever?

I am quite sure that castor oil is an effective laxative. There's reliable research on toxicology and effectiveness of it when ingested.Nothing, however, on the way PD claims it can work on the liver.

quote:

---

Does anyone know whether there's any such thing as medication that draws things out? I have heard castor oil said to be able to do that. I, too, have found that claim unbelievable.

---

I don't know if the "drawing" action you speak of is really what happens, or if some substance or combination of substances "gets in" and counteracts whatever is causing the problem.However, if there is a "drawing" action, I could MUCH more readily belive it to work in the case of bites or other injuries where there is an actual break in the skin, and also where the problem is with or in the skin and adjacent tissues.What I don't even begin to understand is how on earth a castor oil in a pack pack laid on the unbroken skin over the area where the liver is gets through the skin, through bones, fat, connective tissue, muscle, and other organs without affecting them, and "draws out" a specific hormone.That simply goes against everything I have ever learned in my year of Mammalian anatomy and Physiology.

What I wonder is why you only use "natural" sources, when they have in general shown again and again that they are not bound to evidence as the basis for their claims?Here's what I found that is evidence-based that discusses "both" sides: sourceAFAICT, you never had a blood test to check your hormone levels.

quote:

---

So the question concerning castor oil packs whether for estrogen dominance or gallbladder problems is can the castor oil have any impact on the liver when applied to the skin over the liver?

---

Yes, that is the question.The OP lists a number of very basic issues that thus far have not been addressed.In addition, there is even a decent study conducted by people who follow Cayce's quackery that did not find any breakdown products of castor oil in blood or urine when the castor oil was applied to the skin.As I have gone looking for the symptoms and diseases castor oil packs are supposed to be able to cure or help, my bullshit detector was pealing madly. Look at these lists: Colon impaction? Appendicitis? Epilepsy? Cirrhosis of the liver? Toxemia? Ovarian and uterine cysts?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

quote:

---

yes, that's ichthammol. it sucks, hardcore, just like it's supposed to.

---

Does, it, though? Or, does something in the preparation get in?

quote:

---

it works, whether some lab tech has decided to test it or not. maybe it only aids in speeding the natural process of your body repulsing foreign substances, but it does clear up cysts and bites.

---

I know that it works. I've used it on horses with great results.What I am questioning is how it works.The conventional wisdom is that it works by drawing bad stuff out.I strongly suspect that instead, it works by getting in and neutralizing the bad stuff.

quote:

---

Castor oil itself would have a molecular weight around 930 or so - three ricinoleics chemically tied to one molecule of glycerine.

---

Well, that seems to bugger PD's argument and bolster mine quite a lot.

Well, I did a little digging and the only thing I could find was that prolonged exposure to castor oil on the skin can cause dermatitis and eczema

quote:

---

So the question is, what part of the oil is being absorbed and why does it affect the lymphocytes?

---

You still haven't shown any evidence that any castor oil is being absorbed through the skin into the underlying tissues.You still haven't shown any evidence that, IF the castor oil is being absorbed into the underlying tissues, that it somehow is able to bypass or pass through fat, muscle, connective tissue bone, other organs, and bodily fluids and head straight to your gall bladder, overies, liver, appendix, intestines, other pelvic organs, brain (for the epilepsy), etc., nor how it knows to not do anything to those tissues and only work on the problem you want to to work on.Wounded King already provided a possible reason for why the lymphocyte would would go up here; very low-level ricin poisoning. And I'm not about to take McGarey's word for anything, considering he thinks that the castor oil may get to your organs with it's "vibrations." I'm not going to accept any of his claims until I see the text of the A.R.E. study so I can read it myself.Do you have a reference so I can go to the local University medical library an look it up? (even though this is something that you, as the claimant, aught to be doing)

PD, you do realize that it appears to me and others in this thread that you are working very, very hard to find support for your a priori assumption that castor oil packs do whatever it is that you think they do, don't you?IOW, you have something very similar to a Creationist mindset when it comes to your "naturopathic" treatments.You appear to be very inclined to believe in them on faith.You've put a lot of effort into researching and thinking up possible ways that the packs might work, yet you have neglected to put any effort at all into researching or considering if they work in the first place.THAT is the assumption that you should be confronting.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.