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Author Topic:   Knowing God
Jaderis
Member (Idle past 3447 days)
Posts: 622
From: NY,NY
Joined: 06-16-2006


Message 91 of 93 (366024)
11-26-2006 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by iano
10-23-2006 8:15 AM


Re: Knowing God
Peace: I can remember the morning after the night when I recognised my need for him and cried out. I sensed something had changed fundementally. There was a sense of peace about things which descended over me. Everything (irrespective of what might happen to me from now on: bike crashes, job loss, sickness, death) was going to be "okay". I subsequently read about "a peace beyond all understanding" in the Bible. We don't realise how much we actually worry about things until such time as the worry is removed
I do not claim to know the circumstances under which you cried out for Jesus, but I have been burdened by past mistakes, too. I did not need a "savior" to forgive me. I recognized my shortcomings, asked for forgiveness from the people I had done wrong and moved on as a better person. I recognize that I have this life to amend for my mistakes and I try to learn from those that I make. I have no burden too great that it cannot be rectified in my heart by conversing with the person wronged or making up for it somehow by helping someone else in the same situation. I do not need a supernatural savior to absolve me of my "sins."
Freedom: we all have things about us which we would like to change: a short temper, an addiction, meaness, cruelty - whatever. Very often we manage to keep the worst excesses of these things in check through sheer self-control. We may be afraid of the consequences were full expression of these things were they to be seen by others. But these things sit like monkeyss on our backs: always there lurking in the background waiting to come out. One of the things he promises he will do is to transform us. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind" says Paul in Romans 12. He actually changes our way of thinking so that these monkeys dissappear. We find we think differently about things. This is a process: sometimes things are removed straightaway, sometimes they are dissolved over time as we cooperate with him in being changed. But he promises that come hell or high water we will be changed - even if we decide to make it tough for him to do so. "If the son sets you free, you will be free indeed". Again we often don't realize how weighed down we are until the weight is removed "come to me all ye who are heavily burdened and I will give you rest" he says.
Yes, we all have problems with temper, selfishness, etc, but we don't need some supernatural being described in a book to forgive us of such shortcomings. Like I said above, barring actual petitions for forgiveness from the person wronged, we can act in a different way the next time (or the next or the next) when confronted with the same scenario. You had it right when you mentioned self-control. Not "God-control." Self-control. More people need it. Even self-professed christians.
Foregiveness: we all carry around guilt and shame. More than we know. We have all done things in the past that we accept (if we are not in total denial) were wrong. That time has passed doesn't mean that the shame and guilt are gone. It just sits there and we move on - getting used to carrying the burden of it. Although it is against others we have acted it is also an offence against God. And he can forgive us that. Indeed he promises he will do so if a person has a relationship with him "If we ask, he is gracious and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" Again it is one of those things that we won't fully realise we are burdened down with until such time as it is removed. When it is removed then we feel as if a great weight has been removed from our shoulders. And we can always avail of having that burden removed in the future when we sin and the guilt and shame come back. We only have to ask.
Do you really not feel the guilt from all that you have done in all of your life just because you have been saved? Neither has anyone else. We all feel the strain from something every once in awhile. Even though you have "Jesus" to help you through doesn't mean you don't feel shame or guilt (or maybe it means you feel it even more). I feel guilt, too. However, I feel sorrow, I ask forgiveness from the actual people I wronged or I try to rectify my mistakes by helping others in my previous situations. I don't ask some guy in the sky to help me. My freedom comes from knowing I recognized my wrongs and tried to correct them anyway I could. Not praying to some unknown entity to forgive me. I actually worked to forgive myself. Burdens are only burdens if you let them be burdens.
No fear of death: I know where I am going when I die. I might not look forward to the process of dying but I don't fear death itself. In fact I look forward to it. To be free of the shackles which make a full relationship with him impossible. When I die, there will be nothing to interfere with knowing him fully. He is very attractive and to know him more is a constant yearning. You get to hate sin because it interferes with that relationship
I only fear death for what it would do to my mother. I love her with all my heart and she already lost her youngest son. Beyond that I do not fear death at all. I don't even contemplate heaven or hell because they are not real places for me. The energy that provides the words for you on the computer screen will become plant fodder. I love that. My ideas may or may not move on past this generation, but I will still live. Like you, I also do not look forward to the drawn out process that may proceed my death, but death to me is nothing. I cannot fear it because once it is upon me I will have nothing to fear.
Love: Lets face it, loving and being loved is the greatest thing on earth. Nothing trumps it. Whilst it is nice to love kids and to have kids love back it doesn't compare to having God love you. Its the same kind of thing as human love only more. There is nothing you can do to make him love you less, nothing you can do to make him love you more. To have God let you know he loves you is something to behold. And it goes on forever. He will never fall out of love with you. Never go off with someone else
Yes, love trumps all. The undying, unconditional love I have from my family, from my friends is all I want and need from this life. Maybe some people need more and I understand that. When my brother died my entire family was at my mother's side within 24 hours (we're mostly atheists/agnostics/non-practicing christians spread across the USA). My friends, my older brothers' friends and my late brothers' friends all came to us also. I would wager that barely a fifth of the people there were "Christian: or religious in any sense. The importance of his life and the unbelievable beauty of showing how much all 200+ people loved him (we spent 3 hours telling stories about him) was breathtaking and joyful. The love was there and still is.
I do not need your god's love. I have so much love around me from my fellow human beings and my own love of life. I only have one...I have to make the most of it and do all I can to love and be loved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by iano, posted 10-23-2006 8:15 AM iano has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 92 of 93 (366083)
11-26-2006 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear
10-23-2006 1:30 AM


Making sense of faith
What is a relationship with Jesus like?
Its the most wonderful thing in the world. I'm afraid a description beyond that is ineffable.
How does one know this relationship is real?
I don't know how to explain it sensibly. I can't 'show' you. You have to come to that on your own. I have no words for it. I'm sorry. There is a sense of desperation among believers to explain how they know what they know to unbelievers. There is just a quiet understanding that comes over you. This sounds very sappy and sentimental, and surely those who feel they are of a pragmatic nature would scoff at such a thing. Let them do so if they must.
Is knowing Jesus anything more than a feeling - how so?
Yes, it is. But such a thing is difficult to express without using emotive words. If I could convince you using only logic, I would. But I'm afraid that some things, the truly important things, like, love, cannot be explained with mere words. And since God is love, I can't convince you to believe in Him anymore than I can convince you that I love my mother or father. You may believe my sincerity, but you don't know what that's like for me or how I've come to it. Its the same way with God. I can't prove it to you. All I can do is make logical arguments that take you only so far-- that pique your interest to investigate further. The rest comes from Him and its a relationship specially designed between you and Him.
I've never known Jesus. I'd like to know how to recognize the feelings that clearly demonstrate to you Jesus is real.
If you want to know God, you have to start praying to Him to reveal Himself. But you will be tested. I don't know a single person who God immediately revealed Himself to. This needs to happen daily. Don't be looking for physical signs, like shooting stars the moment after you pray. God comes as a still, soft voice in the inner-man. While you are doing this, I ask that you begin your journey by reading an exegetical book, such as, "Mere Christianity." It will tantalize your intellectual side while kneading the spiritual nature. Once you've read it, you might be open and receptive to the Bible. Start with the book of John.
Is it the opinion of the faithful I block out these feelings, fail to acknowledge them or am unable to possess them?
Sure, we all do that. Even Christians do that. I know I still have to wrestle with Him for what is right and good and just. But take heart, you aren't the only one. This is the great dichotomy. You have to remember that there is a purpose to it. And when its all said and done, and that Day comes, you will either know that you've made the worst mistake of your life or you will be enveloped by the most rapturous love imaginable-- the kind of love that makes human love pale in comparison.
Why has Jesus allowed you to have a relationship with him and not me? If Jesus has accepted me and entered into a relationship with me I have not seen it. I have not felt it. I have not heard it. I have no evidence it exists. Am I doing something wrong? I do not think I am bad.
He has come to you, I'm certain of that. Its a matter of being receptive to it. I can only offer my personal testimony. If you will oblige me, I will post what I have previously written as a prologue in a book that I started, entitled, "The Road to Damascus: finding life amidst the valley of the shadow of death"
The inexplicable revealed
It was February 28, 2002. That night marked the 2nd anniversary of my enlistment into the United States Navy. I was off duty that particular night and on a date with a fiery redhead that I had recently met. We had spent the evening getting to know each other better and having a great time. Nearing the latter portion of our date we found ourselves lakeside, engaged in conversation.
The conversation seemed to flow effortlessly from one topic to the next with little prompting. From the ebb and flow of the dialogue, the conversation took an unexpected detour towards a topic, that, in the most profound way, would forever change my life. Alexan began to speak about her faith and about biblical principles and events that shaped and molded her character. Little did we know at the time that these topics would resurface countless times, proving to be the bedrock of our relationship. You see, a few months after the fact, I went ahead and married that girl.
On this night, not only was I attracted to her mental prowess as she spoke of these things, but I was captivated by the conviction behind her faith. She spoke with a certainty unrivaled. I hung on to every word as if it were nourishment to satiate my ravenous hunger for Truth. In her witness, she was being used as a vessel of glory. For the first time in my life, I was honestly receptive to the notion of God.
To fully understand the scope of impact that this had on me, perhaps a brief synopsis will offer a greater insight to the reader. Growing up, I was a fairly typical young man. I had parents and a sister that loved me. I was never without anything thing that sustains life nor lacked any amenities that might have enhanced it. I had a multitude of friends. I was athletic and healthy. I was musically inclined. For all intense and purposes, I had every conceivable reason to be successful in whatever desire I sought to endeavor. Despite all my worldly blessings and achievements, a life once seemingly clear, grew dismal.
    This quote, paraphrased from one of the great Christian apologists, has summed up the ”expression to the truth that has been dumbly struggling in (me) for utterance.’ As well, I pray that I might be that author who gives to you the expression to the truth that has been been dubly struggling in you for utterance. Where should I begin?
    It seems that for as long as I can remember, I have toiled and agonized with the ”void.’ The void: What is it? The void is that curious sense of lack-- that nagging sense that something is missing. It is that place of emptiness inside the human heart. The void is that peculiar intuition that something is amiss and awry, but you aren’t sure why. The void is ever present in all facets of human thought and emotion.
    I found this inequality to be true in my own experience, recognizing that it was separate from intellect, meaning, I could not think my way out of this one. The void spurns the logical and any attempt to rationalize it ends with disparaging results. The void is a quandary and a vexation of sorts. The whole of it becomes so much more than just enigmatic-- its completely bewildering. It is the missing piece of the puzzle. As more variables appeared, I was confronted with a maze of obstacles. The twists and turns sent me roundabout until I came full circle, from where I began. I became the proverbial dog who chases his own tail. What I thought was reality became illusory. What I thought was truth was anything but, and it chastened me.
    From this position, it had caused me to consider the philosophical questions that enter our minds from time to time. I have always found it tremendously interesting to ponder the deeper aspects of such notions and to observe how others have formulated their own conclusions. Gaining perspectives on others allowed me to assimilate my views from theirs, through comparison and contrast. It inevitably led me even further into the uncomfortable journey of introspection. Unfortunately, I had no idea what it was that I was looking for and certainly did not know how to find it.
    The only thing certain for me was that intangible pang in my heart. It was haunting and nothing seemed to offer any solace. I searched through vain and temporal avenues seeking restitution, but reprieve from it constantly alluded me. There were no lines of demarcation-- where a boundary began and where it would end. And so, I sought the council of those I deemed to be wise, hoping that they had some insight on life that I was failing to grasp. To my dismay, they were just as lost as I was, and perhaps even more so, because at least I could admit it to myself. These self-help gurus wore pride as a necklace and were blinded by their own convoluted sense of self-worth.
    At this, point in time, I had heard all the arguments to support this, or that, religion, or to meditate on this, or that, philosophy. But it all left a bad taste in my mouth. All that I gave ear to began sounding like a broken record. Today’s discourse was merely a carbon copy of yesterdays rant. The former was a slight gradation from the latter, only with a subtle twist. It was the same mouthful of mouthwash swishing to the other side of the cheek.
    The understanding that I had hoped to find in them was either fleeting or elusive, altogether. Meanwhile, I suffered in quiet desperation as one day melted seamlessly into the next. I am sure those closest to me sensed some level of despair in me, but I doubt they understood the breadth and depth of its extent. Life was grievous to me and what I thought was reality was now faade.
    Growing weary with cynicism, I eventually embraced agnosticism but not before weighing the juxtaposition of religiosity and philosophy - Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Atheism, Rationalism, and the like. Some of the ”ism’ schism caught my eye but they were quickly put to death for a lack of, what, I do not know. I had been witnessed to by virtually every Christian denomination imaginable. But they were either weak in their faith, and thus, could not present an argument that I could dismantle in moments, or I had put up walls in which to shut them out. And so, for years, I was at the crossroads of ambivalence, not knowing up from down.
    Something new was in the air as Alex spoke; something new on the horizon had dawned. Ironically enough, I did not feel some resplendent bliss that one might associate with the prospect of someone coming to terms with a fixed belief. Nay, but rather, it was dread. It was insidious and I could feel it in the pit of my gut.
    An uneasy feeling came over me and the hairs on the back of my neck stood on end. The air was stagnate and there was a ringing in my ear. ”Something’ knew it had been discovered as I became increasingly aware of its presence and it is aversion to having me hear what she had to say about God. In spite of this, it could not keep me away from Him. The bondages of oppression began to lift throughout the conversation.
    A few weeks after that experience, I had opened myself increasingly to the possibility of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-benevolent presence. I wasn’t entirely sold out on the notion just yet, but I was allowing the possibility to flourish instead of stifling it as I had done for so many years. I began to listen to sermons on the radio and started to read the Bible with understanding. The scales began to fall off my eyes. I was able to discern that which I could not recognize before. The Word became a catalyst to a consuming flame. I began to pray to God, that if He truly was there, that He would reveal Himself to me. And a few weeks after the walls were let down, it happened . . . ...
    I was on a routine patrol getting ready to secure a building on the base. For the life of me, I cannot recall what the sermon was about or what exactly it was that affected me so greatly, nonetheless, like a clarion call, it came to me. Have you ever looked at something for so long that it becomes obscured to you? Have you ever looked at something for so long that you come to realize that it never truly made any sense to you to begin with? Suddenly, and inexplicably, it dawns on you what it is!
    I was sitting in the patrol unit with my jaw to the floor. Incredible emotion swept through me like a shock wave. Emotion washed over me as I was enveloped by grace. I literally fell out of the vehicle, prostrate, in a semi-fetal position. Tears began to well up in my eyes, so heavy and full of burden. And there on the ground, in an unguarded moment, I wept bitterly to my Lord.
    Amid the sobs were guttural groans, interrupted by a feeble attempt to express the ineffable. I begged for intercession and pleaded forgiveness. In that once-in-a-lifetime moment, I understood that which had vexed me for so long. And because I asked, I received. That was the day that I met the Ruach HaKodesh El Shaddai (the Holy Spirit of Almighty God)! After being so sick and tired, of being so sick and tired, I was saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
    “Lord if you are willing, you can make me clean.’ Jesus replied, ”I am willing. Be clean.” -Matthew 8:2-3
    In this book I am going to emphatically support the reasons why I believe that not only is there a God, but that ”He loved the world so much that He gave His only begotten Son,’ for my sake and for yours. In so doing, I ask the reader to be patient with me in my attempt to appeal to the Jewishness of the Scriptures. At times, I am going to be using Greek, Latin, Aramaic and Hebrew translations to help capture the essence of the original manuscripts. For the sake of clarity and continuity, all foreign words will be followed by their respective English translation.
    You may be wondering why I chose to write this; especially those of you who grew up with me who are a bit perplexed at my transformation. Let there be no ambiguity as to my reasons for writing this. I must confess that I have ulterior motives behind it. There are certain individuals that I know, whom shall remain anonymous, that the Lord has placed strongly on my heart.
    To put it simply, I feel that for all who do not know the Lord personally are quite familiar with the ”void.’ Going through my own personal trials and battling my own demons, I am of the firmest belief that it is directly associated with a lack of the knowledge of God. In respects to this, nothing would give me a greater satisfaction than to see them come to the knowledge of God in grace and supplication.
    But, alas, I am met with trepidation and reservation. I am going to be speaking about principles that I do not always keep. In fact, I am a hypocrite, a liar, a glutton, a backbiter, an idolater, a backslider and everything unclean. I could give innumerable instances where I err and fall short to the glory of God. I know, full well, that when left to my own devises, nothing good dwells in me. After all, I have the ability either to glorify His providence or to bring it into disrepute.
    Aside from the distinct fear of misrepresenting my God, I have, as well, an ”Accuser’ who constantly derides me and points out all of my faults and reminds me of my failings. Though I lament over this, I cannot let it deter me from pressing on to the goal. My weakness is God’s strength. I must decrease but He must increase. And if bringing myself low exalts Him, ”so let it be.’ (Amen).
    “For the Law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that, I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I wish not to do, I agree with the Law, that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who does it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, nothing good lives; for to will, is present in me, but how to perform what is good, I do not find. For the good that I want to do, I do not do; but the evil that I do not want to do, this I keep doing. For I delight in the Law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and bringing me into captivity to the law of my sin which is in my members. O’ wretched man that I am! Who will save me from this body of death?” -Romans 7:14-24
    “And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of the Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love, which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first, Christ Jesus might show all, longsuffering as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen” -1st Timothy 1:12-17
    .... For you PTB. May my prayers for you not be hindered in your quest for Truth.
    Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : Clean up the post
    Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : Testing font sizes

    Faith is not a pathetic sentiment, but robust, vigorous confidence built on the fact that God is holy love. You cannot see Him just now, you cannot fully understand what He's doing, but you know that you know Him." -Oswald Chambers

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 1:30 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
    DivineBeginning
    Member (Idle past 6048 days)
    Posts: 100
    Joined: 11-16-2006


    Message 93 of 93 (368156)
    12-07-2006 8:56 AM
    Reply to: Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear
    10-23-2006 8:20 AM


    Re: Weak answer
    Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the living Son of God, creater of all that is around you? If you do, what the Bible says is quite clear. Believe on my name, open your heart to me. John 3:16: For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES, shall not perish, but have everlasting life" All you have to do is accept what Christ has to offer. He's offering you freedom from hell. Not freedom from sin, we are all sinners and fall short of God's glory (Romans). But freedom from guilt, shame, etc. It is so easy, he wants you to come to him, open the door and let him in your heart. It's awesome. Trust me, I've been a Christian since I was 12 and God is awesome.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by PurpleTeddyBear, posted 10-23-2006 8:20 AM PurpleTeddyBear has not replied

      
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