Vanishing God.

This is what I was wondering when I proposed the OT. Would the xian god fearing people out there, lose their fear and become different, less moral people?

You make it sound as if sin is a driving force for behaviour? What about people who profess to not believe in any god?Btw: where have you been dude? Hope all is well with you and yours (I will get back to the GD soon, I promise ) and a happy xmas to you too, mate.

Can we give god it's P45 then? It would be cool to down size our existential overheads and keep the supernatural costs down.

Based on the posts here at EvC, that would likely be the result for some portion of Christianity. Hopefully though they would then find some other authority figure that would help keep them in check or at the least, redirect their energies into a productive direction.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, that's certain what they are being taught to do. And over the years that is exactly what creationist after creationist has adamantly insisted must happen and that they would most definitely do should they ever discover that God does not exist. Furthermore, creationist after creationist has insisted that if the Bible is ever found to contain even one single error, then the entire Bible belongs in the trash, God does not exist, and the Red Hour has finally arrived so they can run naked down the street and rape and kill and do whatever else they want to.That is what they are constantly being taught and that teaching is a consequence of their view of morality and that view of morality is one of the major problems I have with Christian doctrine. Morality is far too important to denigrate in such a manner.In contrast we have the Unitarian Universalist teaching, as presented in a standard anecdote of a Baptist child interviewing a UU minister as part of a Sunday School assignment. She is shocked to discover that UUs don't believe in Hell and asks, "Then why be good?" "Because it is the better way."OK, we've got the fundamentalists teaching their kids that if God doesn't exist then they can do anything they want to guilt-free; there's no reason to be good. And they teach their kids that if the Bible is not true, then God doesn't exist. And they teach their kids that if evolution is true* or if the earth is old after all**, then the Bible is not true, so God doesn't exist, so there is no basis for morality. A local creation science activist tells the story of how he had "become an atheist" and he repeated claims that he used to be an atheist, even though he never was, since he told me that he prayed to God every night while he was an "atheist"; an atheist wouldn't do that. He was raised Christian with his family actively practicing, but in response to the bubbling of his teen-age hormones he chose to "accept evolution" so that he could "become an atheist" and so be free to indulge in his lusts guilt-free. They handed him a loophole and he grabbed it. He never really was an atheist; he was just pretending to himself to be one.They plant such a huge temptation in front of their kids and they still have the audacity to act shocked with the kids gobble that temptation up.And that's just one way in which "creation science" is the single greatest contributor to the growth and spread of atheism. Though definitely an aberrant form of atheism, based as it is on fundamentalist Christian teachings. Edited by dwise1, : Putting quotes in qs boxesEdited by dwise1, : No reason given.

God is a lot like the Internet: You can get just about anything for free if you look for it - no need for registration or other entanglements.

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The idea that all the fundamental Christians would suddenly go on a crazed rampage of immorality and sin in the event of the great and omnipotent security camera in the sky going AWOL is truly terrifying.It appears that atheists and all others who base their morals on empathy and other such sensible foundations would do well to maintain this insane illusion of moral surveillance for their own safety and wellbeing.Never thought I would say it but.....long live God.Finally I have seen the light (Ho Ho Ho)Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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You make it sound as if sin is a driving force for behaviour? What about people who profess to not believe in any god?

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It makes no odds what a person believes. Sin is a disease we are all born infected with. Sin (the disease) urges us to commit sin (the act) and being infected with it we will always respond to it. Every time - were it not for an opposing call. The call of conscience - which is God calling us not so sin (which forms a part of the overall mechanism of salvation). Thus the average person does good/evil. If no conscience (ie: God stopped calling as in the OP) then we would do evil only and no good.A person can say they don't believe in God and that they do good out of compassion or empathy brought about by societal pressure to propagate society etc. They might not believe in God but they were made in his image and likeness nonetheless - that's were the empathy/compassion came from and it is conscience which triggers these things to act at root

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Btw: where have you been dude? Hope all is well with you and yours (I will get back to the GD soon, I promise ) and a happy xmas to you too, mate.

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It appeared to me that Percys philosophy of science was the benchmark against which all would be measured. "Play according to that benchmark or don't play at all" was the underlying message. I could understand the difficulty faced and recognise he is entitled to have it anyway he sees fit. But it still made it Evc not EvC to my mind. His banning of Faith made it a suitable time to call it a day. Blood is thicker than water and she's my sister Whenever/if ever on the GD. I'll keep and eye out for it. All the best Larni. Edited by iano, : No reason given.

Or maybe it is possible we really would not have survived quite so well as a species if we did all just go about murdering and raping each other. Speak for yourself. I find many of Gods actions as described in the bible quite morally repugnent. Where did I get this sense of morality from - one that can consider God to be doing evil? It seems unlikely that this derives directly from God?

I would argue that it is from GOD, and that that, rather then some idea of a Fall is the message of the Garden of Eden tale.I also agree that many of the stories in the Bible seem morally repugnant to us today, and hopefully that trend will continue and even expand.AbE:Where I strongly disagree with iano is that I see no indication that mans nature is to do evil. If GOD stopped calling, I doubt that most people would behave any diferently than they do today.The GIFT was given along with the responsibility to use the gift. We have the capability to know right from wrong and the ability to do right instead of wrong. Certainly, often we fail. Usually we make decisions based on only partial information and sometimes even our best efforts turn out to be wrong simply because we were not fully informed.If you get a chance, read Mark Twain's Mysterious Stranger. It deals with exactly that question.Edited by jar, : add info on Mysterious Stranger

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

In my festively inebriated state I am unable to work out whether this view is very profound or very contradictory.I will certainly give the Mark Twain source a look and hopefully come back to this after the festive period.