Fulfilled Prophecy

if a prophecy is given (quite clearly) and one misrepresents it so as to make it mean something else, how is this not a false prophecy? but it's ok if they don't know that they are full of bs? what if they are willfully ignorant that they are full of bs? and clearly, a lot christian leaders covet power. when one position is contradicted by simply reading the text itself, which position is right? i don't see it. it doesn't say everyone, just people from everywhere. if you or i used that colloquially, no one would think we meant "everyone on the planet" just a "large and diverse group of people." at best, representatives. couldn't this verse be predicting the UN?UN... television... UN... television. hmm.

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The reason I ask is that this prophecy business clearly shows that literal inerrantists are claiming they can use the Bible to mean television, when it does not clearly say television. Yet when someone says the six days of creation may be interpreted as something other than six literal days, the literal inerrantist has a cow.The position held by these fundies appears to be that the Bible says whatever they want it to say and everyone who disagrees will be roasting in hell. The justification is that they are better than anyone else at interpreting the Bible because they have God-like powers of perception while others are mere fallible mortals.No wonder such fundies often feel it is OK to lie, cheat, steal, blasphemy and even kill by proxy. Since the Bible says whatever they want it to say, no strictures, such as commandments, apply to them, only to others.And you wonder why I may get a bit upset with such a position.

Ahaz refused to ask for a sign of the Lord thy God so the sign of the Lord God was given by the Lord to the House of David. The sign in reference to the Lord thy God was that Immanuel would be born of a virgin. This is about the virgin birth of Christ as was prophesied by Isaiah by the Lord to the House of David.kjv Isaiah 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God: ask in either the depth, or the height above. Edited by Charley, : No reason given.Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

Side, Here's MY prediction: you will never see a prophecy of the type

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And it shall come to pass on the seventh day of the seventh year of the second millenium that from out of the depths of the waters shall arise an SS-N-19 Granit carrying the sun. The beast from whence it comes shall be an Antey known as Voronezh, and the sun shall descend upon the House of the Great Satan which is White. And there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth...

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Nowhere in the Bible, that I'm aware of, does it predict the television. However, the book of Revelation makes allusions towards it when it says that the Two Witnesses will be seen by every nation. Well, how can every nation be in the same place simultaneously?

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Well now we see why you dobn't see the problems. You don't pay much attention to what the Bible says either.

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"Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial." -Revelation 11

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ISee ? it DOESN'T say that "every nation" will watch it. It says that people FROM every nation will see it. It says that these smae people will refuse them burial - how will people watching a television thousands of miles away be in a position to have any say in their burial ? It doesn't need televsion, just a cosmopolitan city with a wide variety of foreign visitors.It's not the unbelievers who are having problems with the Bible - it is the self-styled beleivers who seem unable or unwilling to actually pay attention to what the Bible says.

Ah, but that is just because you don't understand how exact the prophecy really is.This will all be carried on Spike TV between RAW and reruns of American Idol and the viewers will text message their vote, bury or not bury.(they will also likely text message their votes for the reruns of American Idol since they will not realize that just as with the Revelations of John, what they are viewing happened in the past and is long over)

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But that isn't a prediction, that's a game of odds which anyone is capable of doing. I predict that Aries will meet the love of their life in September. Did I make a prediction or am I just playing odds? And you also have to take into consideration how many times have those horoscopes failed. I haven't read any thread concerning Nahum the first time. I will read it and give you my opinion on the application, not that I'm the authority on the matter, but I'll tell you straight up how I feel about it. Here's some homework for you. When Jesus rides in on the donkey, what do the people say and do? Is it Matthew drawing inferences that don't exist, the people, or was the prophecy legitimately fulfilled?

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And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off, and he shall speak peace unto the nations; and his dominion shall be from sea to sea, and from the River to the ends of the earth.

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Heh. Not yet. This is the most common reason why the majority of Jews don't believe that Jesus has fulfilled the Messianic criteria. You and I have already gone over this in great detail. You are not understanding the difference and similarity between Mashiach ben Yosef and Mashiac ben David. It has always been assumed that they are two different people, as you will read in the article provided. But I propose that they are the same person coming at two different times-- namely, Yeshua.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

If a person knowingly espouses a false doctrine, there is little doubt that its sin. Do you think that Buz is intentionally misleading people or that he believes in his interpretations? What if its you that's unaware that you're full of bs? Does the context change? Are you a false prophet if you misinterpret prophecy? Yes, clearly there is. And they are going to have to answer to God for that. The right answer is the right answer, because truth is truth.

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the Bible does not mention television outright, only possible allusions of it.

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UN members from every nation, every tribe, and every language is going to be present in Jerusalem on the same street corner as the slain Witnesses' is one theory. That seems far more implausible than everyone will be able to view their deaths on television. But then again, believing that its going to be aired on television or seen by members of the UN, or whatever other theory is just that-- theoretical. I seriously doubt that God is going to send anyone to eternal damnation if one or both of us doesn't fully understand a cryptic passage.The central message of the passage seems to me that two witnesses are called by God to preach the Word. There are all sorts of theories about these two people, not just this one part of the passage that we are currently tunnel-visioned with.Who are they? Some think its Enoch and Elijah. Why? Because it is said that all men are called to die the first death. Both of them are reputed as being raptured. Another theory is that it is Elijah and Moses, because that's who accompanied Jesus during His transfiguration. Does it really matter who it is? It seems to me the importance is that they are from God, speaking on behalf of God, and will die preaching for God. That seems to be the focus.Television, the UN, who they are exactly, etc, are just theories because the truth is, we only have so much to go by. Personally, I think it sounds reasonable that it is possibly speaking about television or maybe even some other technology that we currently have yet to discover. But that's just an inference. I doubt highly that my salvation hinges upon it.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

My apologies to all for my lack of participation since my last post. I was very busy Friday and out of town all day today at church this AM and with relatives the rest of the day. (Sabbath/7th)As NJ has correctly stated, I have never claimed to have the gift of prophecy. I have addressed the prophecies of Biblical prophets who had the gift of prophecy proven by the fact that the fulfilled prophecies applicable to times prior to the present were fulfilled as prophesied, such as the re-emergence of the nation of Israel with the return of the Jews, still identifiable as Jews after 19+ centuries of world dispersion and sometimes severe persecution, imo a super empirical miracle. Though I hoped not to get stonewalled on one of the less significant prophecies, I guess since some folks seem to have a reading comprehension problem we'll need to delve into some specifics of the prophecy. I thought I had made it clear that prophesied events obviously pertaining to end time events prophesied in the book of Revelation, et al preceeded the prophecy in question of speedy wheeled vehicles speeding (as observed in horse and chariot days) and crashing in the streets. http://www.waronline.org/en/IDF/arms/merkava.htm - 25k -Granted, verse one states that the ultimate primary focus of the prophecy is on Nineveh. However, as I've stated before, if one studiously seeks to master the prophetic books of the Bible, one discovers that one must be cognisant of the fact that segues of prophecy pertaining to the end time often accompany prophecies applicable to more contemporaneous fulfillment. Space does not permit it for this thread but I could site numerous incidences of this.Analysis of high points of Nahum 1.1. Book title: Burden of Ninevah
NOTE: Narry the hint of anything aluding to Nineveh until chapter 2 verse 8.2. Topic one: The Biblical god, Jehovah. (ASV) Jehovah avenges and is full of wrath, taking vengence on his adversaries, reserving wrath for his enemies in verse 2.Jehovah has his way in the whirlwind (tornadoes, hurricanes) and in the storm and the clouds are the "dust of his feet." verse 3Jehovah rebukes the sea by making it dry, dries up all the rivers, Bashan, Carmel and the "flower of Lebanon" languish. verse 4The mountains quake at him (Jehovah), the hills melt (leveling effect), the earth is upheaved (earthquakes), "the world and all that dwell therein." (verse 5) NOTE: SEE REVELATION 16:18-20 Day of Jehovah's indignation (end time wrath of God as per other prophets, Jesus and Revelation. "who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his anger is poured out like fire and the rocks are broken asunder by him." verse 6 (still in chapter one of Nahum)Jehovah is a stronghold in the day of trouble and cognisant of those who take refuge in him. verse 7The rest of chapter one appears to be directed to Judah as noted in verse 15, assuring them that their persecutors are cut off. (This is what happens at Armageddon when the armies of the nations who invade Israel are destroyed as per messianic prophecies and the future events, an example of which is in Ezekiel chapters 36 through 39 regarding what appears to be culminating with Armageddon, i.e the last war (invasion of Jerusalem by nations culminating with the 2nd (messianic) advent of Jesus/lord/messiah.CHAPTER 2 CONTINUES WITH REFERENCE TO Jacob/Israel: Nahum prophesies that Jehovah will "restore" Israel after their enemies are all eliminated.verses 3 amd 4 describe these vehicles (chariots) which "flash with STEEL in the day of his preparation." They "rage in the streets; the RUSH TO AND FRO IN THE BROADWAYS. They look like torches (likely night vision of modern broadways/freeways). They "run like lightnings" speed unimaginable by ancient horsemen and footmen.Nobels et al addressed in next three verses. Then note the wording in verse 8, the first verse of the book of Nahum which actually addresses the city of Nineveh:"BUT NINEVEH has been of old like a pool........" Nahum 2:8
After prophesying concerning the latter day wrath time of Jehovah, the prophet now reverts back contemporaneously to prophesy the destruction of Nineveh, including the destruction of their own ancient armies and chariots. I know there's a controversy as to the dating of the book and this thread is not for debating that. I believe Usher dates it around 713 BC but I am unable to verify that.Suffice to say, if one; anyone who cares to keep what is written in perspective looks at the evidence which I have documented, the description of the speedy steel chariots having torches/lights in question are not contemporaneous to the time of Nahum.I've spent over an hour on this one message in order to respond to the folks who are falsely alleging that I am addressing the prophecies in a reckless and careless manner.EDITED FOR CORRECTION OF QUOTE WHICH I INTENDED TO ADDRESS AT BEGINNING OF THIS MESSAGE Edited by Buzsaw, : To replace wrong Arach quote

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Buz never said that it meant television, only that he believes it makes allusions towards it. I happen to agree. That doesn't mean that we're right or wrong. Maybe we'll all get to find out for certain real soon. They believe in the six day creation because its a lot more clear than the Revelation prophecy that might be making inferences that its speaking about television. Or that's what you want to believe because its easier to hate someone who treats you poorly than someone who genuinely cares about your disposition. Here's a hint though: You won't go to hell if you don't think that extremely cryptic passage is talking about television. You'll "roast" in hell if you deny your own sins and refuse to accept the only acceptable propitiation for them. Again, this sounds like your only misunderstanding which doesn't constitute a failure on either my part or Buzsaw's. I don't have God-like powers of perception, nor am I infallible, nor am I inherently immortal. Even supposing I was, God still gets all the glory, Amen. Name me one that feels its ok to lie, cheat or steal, etc. Not one of them. Even the worst of them don't believe that. However, many of them do live a duplicitous life, including myself at times. But none of them exonerate that behavior which is why they attempt to do it clandestinely. Why? Because they know its wrong.

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"A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell." -C.S. Lewis

My dear brother, Biblical creationists are blessed (abe: to) have the luxury of someone as willing as you are to take the heat in such a kindly, evenhanded and articulative manner in order to balance the ideological debates at EvC. It's usually one versus a host of counterparts as you have experienced. You're equal to a half dozen of them for our team. The word angel = Greek/Angelos = messenger. You, dear brother, imo, are a messenger whom God has sent to EvC town. Thank you so very much for your laborious contribution to EvC and may God's richest blessings be on you and yours! Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

nemesis_juggernaut So it really isn't really a prophecy then, it is just a guess, is that what we are hearing?

NJ didn't say every nation will view the bodies. He said all nations can view the bodies - big difference.The context states that these men will be so hated of the nations that people of the whole world will be celebrating the deaths of them. After all, these prophets had the power to cause it not to rain at will for three and a half years as well as other stuff. Judging from the extent of the celebration, the implication is horrendous global drout/global warming/famine, et al as other prophets have implicated to come on the world.This is one heckofa biggie event. It would be very likely that the TV viewing world will view the bodies and UN representatives of the nations would demand no burial in order to please their constituents of the nations whom they represent. God also has a stake in this. He sees to it that the nations also view the resurrection of these two so as to put the fear and awe of himself into the rebellous creatures of the planet whom he has created in his own image.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Here is a list of 10 to start with:Ron Wyatt - unrepentant liar (to be fair, some have argued he may have been insane and therefore didn't know he was lying)Ted Haggard - repentant liarJim Bakker - repentant liar, tax cheat, and thiefJimmy Swaggart - repentant liarKent Hovind - unrepentant liar, tax cheat, and thiefOral Roberts - unrepentant liarSun Myong Moon - unrepantant liar, tax cheat, thief, and blasphemerDavid Koresh - unrepentant liar, blasphemer, and proxy killerPat Robertson - unrepentant liarBenny Hinn - unrepentant liarI limited blasphemy to those who have claimed they are Jesus.{ABE} I also limited tax cheat/thief to those actually convicted in court.There's more if this list is insufficient. Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.

hi.first, please read what i wrote. then please read isaiah 7.please notice that in almost every modern translation the word "virgin" is not present. that's because the word in the hebrew, — does not mean virgin. second, please note the use of the heh-prefix on the word. which young woman? the young woman, that is to say, this specific young woman. she would have had to have been in the room for the grammar to make any sense. further, please note that the first verb of the statement seems to be present tense, not the popular future tense. the sentance should read "the young woman is pregnant."third, please also note that this is not the prophecy, rather the time span for the prophecy. a woman at some indeterminant point in the future isn't especially useful as a marker of time, and would essentially be meaningless to king ahaz. the prophecy itself is that ahaz will defeat the asyrians. this is the prophecy:

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the land whose two kings thou hast a horror of shall be forsaken.

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it can be found in verse 16, as well the preceeding verses, and proceeding verses. the child has little to do with it, excpet as a marker of time. the rest of the chapter has to do with the defeat of assyria. fourth, christ's name was joshua, not imanuel.this is a prime example of the principle i was talking about. the prophecy itself is rather concrete. it is from the lord god, through isaiah, and delivered specifically to king ahaz. it says exactly what will happen, albeit in poetic terms: assyria will be held off, and ultimately crushed. it gives a specific time frame: no more than 13 years (probably a lot less, but information about cultural customs is lacking). so let's review: ahaz will defeat the assyrian invaders within 13 years. nice, solid prophecy.how do you get christ, who was not named immanuel, born some 600 years later, and virgin birth from this passage? it's just not what it's about. in order to do so, you have to:

• not know hebrew,
• not understand grammar
• not have read the rest of the chapter
• mistranslate a word
• rip the verse out of context
• change the point of the verse
• and exploit vagueries created by your ignorance of the first two conditions.

the passage is not vague at all. you choose to make it vague in order to misrepresent it, and exploit its supposed vagueries.

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