Fulfilled Prophecy

That is completely false.I, for one, would be only too glad to accept any or all of your interpretations if there was any evidence to bear you out.You deleude yourself if you think the "skeptics" have any motivation other than following the evidence.

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matthew's genealogy is the line of the kings. luke's is not. whether or not they conflict, the line of kings goes through solomon.see, um, the entire book of kings. again, see matthew:

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Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; ...

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Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph...

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according to matthew, joseph is a descendant of solomon. it is generally accepted that luke's genealogy refers to mary's bloodline, not joseph's. the right to be king has to come from the father's side, as judah was a patrilineal society.

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he is essentially providing proof for my argument. you'll notice this sub-thread is called "dates."immanuel is an example of how a prophecy gives a specific date. but this is not the way christians chose to read it. they'd rather make it vague, slap a bunch of stuff together, take it all out of context, and the preach a bunch.

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you are, quite incredibly, still not understanding the structure of nahum's argument, or the title of the book. the book of nahum is a curse on nineveh. it says this, and you have to ignore the first verse to make your point. you have not shown that verse apply to plces other than nineveh, just that you can make arbitrary distinctions in an obviously contiguous text, and rend things entirely out of context. all you have demonstrated is that you can quotemine. buz, i know you don't believe that i'm a christian. but i am. i believe in god too. i see miracles everyday, and i thank god for his glorious creation. i can't look up into the sky at night without seeing a billion gigantic miracles.you are plainly misrepresenting your opponents, and their arguments. you do this instead of actually responding to criticism, lest you be forced to acknowledge points. in fact, the statement is especially ironic because i spent at least one post here acknowledging that prophecy that you say is unfulfilled is in fact already and miraculously come true. you are not admitting the miracle -- the fall of assyria, israel's greatest oppressor for the better part of 400 years -- in favor of your twisted dogmatism. see? precisely. who's saying "not fulfilled?" you. not me. i know this is mystical and complex for you, but the arguments make sense. it goes like this:"god can destroy the sea. can you destroy the sea? no? don't mess with god."chapter 1 is not about nineveh. it is about god's power, and why you should not mess with him. it is not predicting end-time events -- we have other end-time books for that. nahum is merely attesting to the abilities of god as it pertain to destruction. assyria can destroy a kingdom -- god can destroy the planet. assyria would be like swatting a fly.and it's no mistake that when someone goes to describe the destruction of the planet, similar things are talked about. after all, if one passage is talking about how can destroy the planet, and another about how god will destroy the planet, they're gonna sound pretty similar. especially when you take into account the kind the kinds of grammar prophets like nahum are fond of using.this is the important part of chapter one:

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Nah 1:6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger?

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and this:

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Nah 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

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and this part:

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Nah 1:13 For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder.

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that "yoke" is, guess who, assyria. when you see it referring to "enemies" it means assyria. when it's delivering curses, they're on assyria. we know this not only because nahum tells us so but because of the rest of the bible. we know where nahum falls, when it was written, and what was going on in the world at that time. we know that the principle enemy of israel was assyria. like i said, it's about the same as talking about enemies of judaism in 1944 germany. it doesn't take albert freakin' einstein to realize who they are.but you choose to take things out of context of the book, the time, and even the rest of the bible, to shuffle things around however you see fit. to choose to ignore structure, and the over-arching point of the book of nahum, let alone the chapter. instead of reading the chapter and seeing the might of god, you see little sound bites all to be fulfilled independently, none of which have anything to do with making a coherent argument or having any kind of rationale. you must wonder why god put the bible together so wonderfully arbitrary and all split up randomly, so that one verse and the next talk about completely different things.whoever wrote your bible is schizophrenic, and your presuppositions are insulting to the people who wrote mine. this is not a problem with the bible, but with you. you are not seeing the forest. you are not even seeing the trees. you're not even seeing the leaves. you're looking at the photosynethetic cells.you are quotemining and distorting, because you have no regard for structure or intent.Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

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1. Newton's Laws were the three laws of motion which had to do with motion, gravity and inertia, et al. It would not be unusual or out of character for him to make such a statement applicable to the speed/motion of travel. inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blnewton.htmNewton was also a student of the Bible. Thus it would not be unusual or out of charater for him to make such a statement. web.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/01-Courses/current-courses/08sr-newton.htm(Embolding mine for emphasis)2. There is a monthly publication, "The Signs Of The Times." The link will take you to their forum. 3. There is a whole lot of existing info including quotes of notables which are not found on the internet. I do not have time to go to the library and search out whether this quote exists but it is a given that if I had time I could likely find a lot notables said that is not on Google et al.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

Hi Iceage. Before you edited out your request for my responses to your message #10 concerning the authenticy of the Newton quote in message one, I began researching and have finished spending an hour or so researching the Isaac Newton quote. For you and others who are interested you can now read my response in message #155.abe: http://EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy -->EvC Forum: Fulfilled ProphecyEdited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

kjv Matthew 1:25 The Word says that Joesph was married to Mary but he knew her not until after the birth of the Lord Jesus. Thus if no man knew Mary and scripture says he was made of a woman in the epistle to the galatians, the seed of the woman in the book of Genesis.The date of the virgin birth prophecy fullfillment happened when the constellation "Virgo" was in eclipse with the sun and with the moon under her feet on Sept 11, 3BC. Revelation 12:1-2.--------------------------Revelation 12:1-2 says, "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." In 3 B.C., it was on Wednesday, September 11th, which was the only day when the constellation Virgo (represented as a woman) clothed with the sun as it entered the mid-body in its ecliptic course had the moon under her feet. Thus, it was during this day, when Jesus Christ was born.http://www.worldofchristmas.net/actual-christ-birth.html

Hi Ringo. You're pretty good at posting brief potshots at folks who do the tedious work. I spent over an hour on the evidence in message #99. How about you spend a little more of your time reading and assimilating the evidence and a little less of it posting substanceless potshots alleging there's none?http://EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy -->EvC Forum: Fulfilled Prophecy

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW ---- Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." Luke 21:28

matthew was evidently misreading the septuagint translation of isaiah, and taking this verse out of context. the hebrew cannot possibly be read to support matthew. which means that even supposing the virgin birth happened, isaiah does not predict it. the "virgin" in isaiah, the one that's pregnant and in the room as the prophet speaks, is a marker of time for king ahaz. etiology ≠ prophecy. that verse explains why women (or people in general, if you like) have an aversion to snakes. assuming the constelation virgo was even named that at that time, or had that symbolism. the reference to the shepherds sleeping outside with their flocks indicates that the birth of christ would have to be in spring, around april. it's generally accepted that christ was born between 4 and 6 bc. though it's really either before 6 bc, or after 4 bc, not in between. it's also generally accepted that revelation is prophecy, referring to future events. not past ones.

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There is also the fact that the early Jews were absolutely opposed to Astrology and so would never include things like Astrological Signs in a holy work. The Early Christians like the Jews also were very much opposed to anything smacking of Astrology so relating something in Jewish or Christian Scripture to the Sign Virgo (which is also a later creation anyway) would be sacrilege.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think I told you once that my all-time favorite pastor was a "prophecy nut" (no offense intended) just like you. I would have given an arm and a leg to be able to believe his (and your) interpreations of prophecy. I spent a very, very, very long time trying very, very hard to find anything believable in it.Do not accuse me of not having done my homework.Others on this thread have shown the abysmal level of your "scholarship". There is no need for me to add to that. You can run away from the evidence but you can not make it go away.Do not make assumptions about my motivations and do not make false accusations about me.

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It says the wisemen worshipped the Lord Jesus bringing gifts of gold, incense, and mryh. The gold for his being King and overcoming Satan and incense for his being God of heaven and earth and that he would rise from the dead, Myrrh his passion and drinking bitter gall and feel the pains of hell from Satan, etc...The greek word for virgin in Matthew 1:23 means: an unmarried girl thats a virgin. Its called a confirmation in agreement with the Isaiah prophecy meaning a virgin would give birth to Immanuel.I have not much more to say on the virgin birth, people will believe whatever they believe.In respect to the gifts of gold, incense, and myrrh that the wisemen brought to honor the birth of the Lord Jesus. It is interesting that the Gold arrived just before the Lord Jesus was taken into Egypt and that the Lord coming out of Egypt too was prophecied including the wisemen honoring the Lord being God of heaven and earth all from the sacred texts in respect to Adam and Eve written long before Emmanuels birth.Enjoy,Charley-----------------------------------------17 He then turned to his son Seth, and to Eve his wife, and said to them, "Preserve this gold, this incense, and this myrrh, that God has given us for a sign; for in days that are coming, a flood will overwhelm the whole creation. But those who shall go into the ark shall take with them the gold, the incense, and the myrrh, together with my body; and will lay the gold, the incense, and the myrrh, with my body in the midst of the earth.18 "Then, after a long time, the city in which the gold, the incense, and the myrrh are found with my body, shall be plundered. But when it is spoiled, the gold the incense, and the myrrh shall be taken care of with the spoil that is kept; and naught of them shall perish, until the Word of God, made man shall come; when kings shall take them, and shall offer to Him, gold in token of His being King; incense, in token of His being God of heaven and earth; and myrrh, in token of His passion.19 "Gold also, as a token of His overcoming Satan, and all our foes; incense as a token that He will rise from the dead, and be exalted above things in heaven and things in the earth; and myrrh, in token that He will drink bitter gall; and feel the pains of hell from Satan.20 "And now, O Seth, my son, behold I have revealed unto thee hidden mysteries, which God had revealed unto me. Keep my commandment, for thyself, and for thy people,"http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe096.htmhttp://www.worldofchristmas.net/actual-christ-birth.htmlEdited by Charley, : No reason given.Edited by Charley, : No reason given.Edited by Charley, : No reason given.Edited by Charley, : added link in respect to jars request

It is generally considered good form whatever to tell folk where you are getting things you quote, for example that your quote in Message 162 is from the Second Book of Adam and Eve.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

isaiah doesn't say "virgin."

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hanah, ha-almah harah v'yoledit ben, v'qarat shemu imanu-el.

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behold, the girl is pregnant and will birth a son, and she will call his name imanuel (god is with us).

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i don't care what the greek of matthew says. that's what the hebrew of isaiah says. the girl -- she would have to be present. is pregnant, present tense. evidently, as you absolutely refuse to listen to reason. it's not my subjctive belief that this is what isaiah says. i'm sorry, but that's the black and white on the page, in nice block letters and vowel points.further, there's a good argument that "virgin" in the greek bible does not carry the same connotation as you would expect, as according to the septuagint (the translation matthew quotes), dinah was a virgin after she was raped.and don't believe most christians have the books of adam and eve in their bibles.

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even before i checked, that was actually my guess. it just sounds like the kind of backwards-formulated ideology found in the pseudepigraphica.

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