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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 123 of 364 (380200)
01-26-2007 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ringo
01-26-2007 3:20 PM


Where do we go from here?
I am asking the committee to decide where this meeting is supposed to go. We have people here who are claiming to be mouthpieces for God...we have people who claim to speak for God....we have people who presuppose god...and we have people who do not even consider God.
Perhaps God has already stood up and left the meeting! I don't imagine He (or She) would leave us in a lurch like that, but I have received no impartation's or prophetic utterances to indicate otherwise. Have you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by ringo, posted 01-26-2007 3:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 01-26-2007 7:13 PM Phat has replied
 Message 128 by Malachi-II, posted 01-27-2007 4:30 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 364 (380391)
01-27-2007 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by ringo
01-26-2007 7:13 PM


What is the Essence of Sin?
Ringo writes:
Since the OP refers to "the nature of God", we have to determine what the nature of God is before we can decide Who has that nature and who doesn't.
Often in Christian circles, the Bible is used to explain the concept of sin as it applies to humans and their relationship with God. (A presupposition duly noted on the record)
GTU.org writes:
Essentially, sin is any transgression or violation of God's law. This is seen in 1 John 3:4 where John wrote, "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." The New American Standard says, "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness." In other words, any lack of conformity to the perfect moral standard of God is sin.
But our problem with sin goes much deeper than simple acts of disobedience, which are merely outward manifestations of inner fleshly compulsions. The basic inclination and orientation of man toward self-gratification-however religious or moral we may appear on the outside-is directly hostile to God. Even the good deeds of an unbeliever fail to fulfill God's law. Why? Because they are produced by the flesh, for selfish reasons, and from a heart that is in rebellion toward God.
Romans 8:7 tells us that the natural man is at enmity with God-meaning that he has a positive hatred toward God and stands in opposition to Him. Sin seeks to dethrone and depose God, usurp His authority, and put self in His place.
At its core all sin is an act of pride. Pride says, "Move over, God, I'm in charge, I'll do what I want." Therefore all sin at its core is blasphemy because it attacks God. When we come into this world we love sin, and so we love our rebellion and we love our pride and we love our blasphemy. We delight in it and we seek every opportunity we can to manifest it.
Jesus taught that the central demand of God's law is to "love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these" (Mark 12:30-31).
Thus, the essence of all sin is the failure to love God. That is the primary violation. And the essence of sin is most clearly seen in unbelief. This shows up in John 16 where Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit who would "convict the world of sin . because they do not believe in Me" (John 16:8). In other words, any failure to love and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ is a failure to love God. Thus, the apostle Paul wrote, "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be damned" (1 Corinthians 16:22).
So, the ultimate sin, the epitome of sin and the summation of sin, is any lack of love for God and His Son Jesus Christ. "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment" (1 John 3:23).
I submit this hypothesis to the record and note that the issue brought up by many evangelicals is the issue of Jesus Christ versus humanity. (Odd then that they fail as much or more than many non-believers)
I admit bias in favor of Jesus Christ based on what I have been taught, but I submit the evangelical position as a possible explanation of why Jesus Christ is usually the object of either worship or derision from humanity. It seems evident to me that Jesus never evokes a neutral reaction...in any lineup.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by ringo, posted 01-26-2007 7:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 01-27-2007 11:17 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 135 of 364 (380449)
01-27-2007 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
01-27-2007 11:17 AM


What are the duties of a God?
Since we are apparently going with the hypothesis that God (the real One, anyway) does not care what people do, what are we to conclude? Are we all voting for Deism? Are we unwilling to embrace an embraceable God? Are we content to build little temples and statues and feed these dumb objects on a daily basis?
Or at the other end of the extreme, are we crafting a God of our own imagination that could be our own collective Ego?
Perhaps I need a cup of water..I need to sit down, I am growing quite faint. (Evidently, I have no desire to attempt to stand up for the real God..whomever that God may eventually end up being.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 01-27-2007 11:17 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 01-27-2007 12:01 PM Phat has replied
 Message 140 by Michael, posted 01-27-2007 12:13 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 01-27-2007 12:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 151 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2007 10:42 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 136 of 364 (380451)
01-27-2007 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Archer Opteryx
01-27-2007 11:44 AM


Re: And now for the answer
Archer writes:
What if the real gods are An, Enlil, Inanna, Enki, Nanna and Utu after all?
Oh great! A committee...just what we need running the place!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-27-2007 11:44 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Archer Opteryx, posted 01-27-2007 12:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 139 of 364 (380458)
01-27-2007 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
01-27-2007 12:01 PM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Jar writes:
If GOD exists, She exists regardless of any evidence She does not exist.
Was this a vote of confidence for Sophia?
It is humbling to think that the real Creator of the Universe would stop by and talk with us. It would be as if we humans paid attention to an ant on the sidewalk. (perhaps some Buddhists actually do.)
I know that I am always careful not to step on those baby ducks. I am going to visit my nephew next week, so I have to pay extra care attention to his imaginary friends, for they are very real to him.
jar writes:
If GOD doesn't exist, It doesn't exist regardless of evidence It does exist.
Than why are we having this meeting? Oh yeah..the donuts...I forgot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 01-27-2007 12:01 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 143 of 364 (380468)
01-27-2007 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Michael
01-27-2007 12:35 PM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
Is this candidate qualified to be God? Sounds like a global committee to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Michael, posted 01-27-2007 12:35 PM Michael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by ringo, posted 01-27-2007 12:49 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 145 by Michael, posted 01-27-2007 12:56 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 148 by Michael, posted 01-27-2007 2:26 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 152 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2007 10:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 158 of 364 (380671)
01-28-2007 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Greatest I am
01-28-2007 10:09 AM


Re: The Fifth Candidate
GIA writes:
I make no claim to Godhood except being a God in training or God potential.
God in training? I thought the job was already taken. There is a difference between raising up and being like God and being in communion with God. Notice how Jesus was raised from the Dead (By His Father) rather than raising Himself from the dead. None of us ever have God potential, for we will never be able to create a Universe. This is not a problem, however. I am not an electrician, but I know who to call. I am not a Doctor but I know who to call. I am not a Deity but I believe that I know who to call.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 10:09 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 11:19 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 161 by ringo, posted 01-28-2007 11:47 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 167 by Greatest I am, posted 01-28-2007 7:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 184 of 364 (381177)
01-30-2007 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Malachi-II
01-30-2007 3:45 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Malachi--I am impressed! That was one of the clearest posts you have ever written! (Its almost a Post Of The Month!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 3:45 AM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 7:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 188 of 364 (381264)
01-30-2007 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Malachi-II
01-30-2007 9:31 AM


Re: Proposed new candidate
Malachi II writes:
If it please the committee, I should like to propose a new candidate for a place at the table.(whose name is, GOLD.)
Duly noted. You will have to hoist your deity on to the table and guard it, however. I am not responsible for your deity being heisted from these proceedings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 9:31 AM Malachi-II has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 190 of 364 (381471)
01-31-2007 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Malachi-II
01-31-2007 5:41 AM


A Matter Of Belief
Here we be...a committee that has the unenviable task (or perhaps an enviable one) of selecting a Deity that can truly be shown to be God: The One and Only. (Unless we agree on pantheism, in which case we can all pat ourselves on the back and revel in a true oneness communion)
Malachi II writes:
'Little smilies' are indicators, not true revealer's of mood.
You would be amazed at the capabilities of one of these little icons!
Icons are thought to be Windows To Heaven in the Orthodox Christian tradition. Who would have thought that 1300 years later, people would actually communicate on computers using an operating system known as Windows and using smilies as icons? On a semi serious note, however, I now call upon our various Deity candidates to one at a time attempt to best express themselves and touch us...proving to our own internal beliefs at least that they deserve to be loved, worshiped, and trusted.
If we as a committee are unable to agree on which God touched us or upon whether the touch was even experienced, we shall have to disassemble and resume our daily activities with this grand question in the universal scheme of things forever unresolved.
I felt something, but so far can only rule out Gold, since Gold can't move according to the latest research.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 5:41 AM Malachi-II has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by kuresu, posted 01-31-2007 3:25 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 193 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 3:59 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 198 by Michael, posted 01-31-2007 6:52 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 199 of 364 (381593)
01-31-2007 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Quetzal
01-31-2007 4:12 PM


Re: Objection!
The Christian God is only represented once. Members of the committee, note that there is only one chair...occupied by Jesus representing His Father and that any Spirit perceived as real or otherwise emanates through Him.
Spirit can represent any and all of the Gods, provided that the committee determines that the same Spirit is doing so. Any fraudulent spirits will be disqualified by our committee provided we identify them as such.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Quetzal, posted 01-31-2007 4:12 PM Quetzal has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 208 of 364 (381835)
02-02-2007 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Archer Opteryx
02-02-2007 8:08 AM


Just The Fax, Ma'am
Ringo writes:
Do we need to "hire" one of the candidates at all? If none of the candidiates can convince us that he is indispensible to the requirements of our organization, why not cut costs and leave the position vacant?
Actually...Israel did that already. They did not see Jesus as qualified to be the Messiah that their planning committee deemed authentic. So they left the position vacant. Jesus Himself said to His Disciples that He was going away to a place they could not follow...but that He would send the comforter (Holy Spirit) back to them. In a sense, aside from the Spirit...the position is still vacant. Unless of course someone objects to the Spirit and hires GhostBusters!
Malachi II writes:
My simple conclusion is that He knows us far better than we know ourselves. He knows his original purpose succeeded until now and will continue to self-perpetuate.
I agree with you also, Malachi.
Malachi II writes:
Despite the undeniable breadth of Dawkins’ analytical mind and his depth of knowledge, I wonder if he might possibly have fallen into a trap laid by himself.
Interesting speculation, although Dawkins can only be judged on his honesty and intentions...not on his conclusions.
Archer Opterix writes:
I don't see anything here to stop God from sending a fax if a person wants one. Thoughts?
I was just remembering a scripture that I heard yesterday which brought to mind our candidate, Gold.
Allow me to submit this scripture to the minutes of this meeting, If I may.....
NIV writes:
Ps 115:3-8
Our God is in heaven;
he does whatever pleases him.
4 But their idols are silver and gold,
made by the hands of men.
5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
eyes, but they cannot see;
6 they have ears, but cannot hear,
noses, but they cannot smell;
7 they have hands, but cannot feel,
feet, but they cannot walk;
nor can they utter a sound with their throats.
8 Those who make them will be like them,
and so will all who trust in them.
I submit the idea that whichever God candidate that we committee members decide is our choice, we will become like this candidate if we internally accept the characteristics of the candidate. I'm not sure if this means that those who accept the spaghetti monster will become jolly rotund gourmets, however.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Archer Opteryx, posted 02-02-2007 8:08 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Malachi-II, posted 02-02-2007 10:03 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 222 of 364 (382305)
02-04-2007 8:18 AM


Apologies accepted...now move along
On behalf of both of you, all apologies are accepted. Now lets move on. This meeting is no place for personal squabbles. Granted that we all should respect each other more...
Anyway, where were we? Gold has been challenged as a legitimate candidate since it has no hands or feet.
One contention was that the candidate had to possess something called The Holy Spirit. We have not yet arrived at a consensus as to what this is and whether it is necessary. Any comments?

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Malachi-II, posted 02-04-2007 9:34 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 227 by ringo, posted 02-04-2007 1:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 238 of 364 (828024)
02-07-2018 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by ringo
02-02-2007 12:16 PM


Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
ringo writes:
And an omnipotent God could provide tailor-made messages to every human being so that there were no internal inconsistencies. A Muslim could compare their explanation-from-the-mouth-of-God with a Christian and a Wiccan and they would find nothing to disagree on.
And yet somehow the communication breaks down. Most critics claim that the communication breaks down on Gods end---that He is likely non-existent. There are some, however, who believe that it is the humans who have dropped the ball. Perhaps we need to demand something apart from evidence.
SCENE: The Courtroom. It is eleven years later. Some of the committee has retired, while others failed to get reelected.
The candidates are recalled to stand in front of the committee.
at the table we have:
1) Jesus Christ, who is representing His Father.
2) Loki, the Trickster.
3) Sophia- the source of Wisdom.
4) The Flying Spaghetti Monster
We re-open this town meeting up by asking questions and allowing the candidates to answer, based on the words that we give them.(since this is a Forum of ideas, and since each answer should be consistent with the character that is commonly ascribed to these candidates.
Ringo again asks the candidates for Photo I.D. He seems eager to get the proceedings concluded, as he usually hands out spare change downtown near the local watering hole and is eager to go and see his forgotten people.
Phat is the one who brought the committee out of retirement to finish the meeting, and it has ringo perturbed, as he *just* concluded another meeting with the local education board to bar the use of the word *miracle* in science class.
ringo has the floor.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by ringo, posted 02-02-2007 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by ringo, posted 02-08-2018 11:21 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 240 of 364 (828044)
02-08-2018 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by ringo
02-08-2018 11:21 AM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
keep in mind that this is a play---a made-up story. There are no lies in stories.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by ringo, posted 02-08-2018 11:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by ringo, posted 02-08-2018 12:01 PM Phat has replied

  
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