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Author Topic:   Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 226 of 354 (364598)
11-18-2006 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by dogrelata
11-18-2006 10:39 AM


Re: Special insight?
Welcome to the fray dogrelata.
Not sure if this is really related to this topic, but I do think it is to Perceptions of Reality where I have added in Message 112
Enjoy.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by dogrelata, posted 11-18-2006 10:39 AM dogrelata has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by dogrelata, posted 11-19-2006 2:48 AM RAZD has not replied

  
dogrelata
Member (Idle past 5311 days)
Posts: 201
From: Scotland
Joined: 08-04-2006


Message 227 of 354 (364676)
11-19-2006 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by RAZD
11-18-2006 6:26 PM


Re: Special insight?
Thanks RAZD.
I'll check out the other topic and post any response to your post on that topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by RAZD, posted 11-18-2006 6:26 PM RAZD has not replied

  
DominionSeraph
Member (Idle past 4754 days)
Posts: 365
From: on High
Joined: 01-26-2005


Message 228 of 354 (365028)
11-20-2006 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by RAZD
11-15-2006 6:16 PM


RAZD writes:
Actually it was you:
No, it was you:
quote:
Earth can be defined as a cage for all life on earth: does that make us caged?
Latter 'caged' is clearly disassociated from the restrictions of the former. If I misinterpreted, that would mean that you asked an extraordinarily stupid question.
I win either way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by RAZD, posted 11-15-2006 6:16 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by RAZD, posted 11-22-2006 8:51 PM DominionSeraph has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 229 of 354 (365511)
11-22-2006 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by DominionSeraph
11-20-2006 8:26 PM


bye
RAZD writes:
Actually it was you:
No, it was you:
quote:
Earth can be defined as a cage for all life on earth: does that make us caged?
Which has nothing to do with "unlimited" - did you think I would miss you moving the goal posts?
The full quote is
You're the one who brought up unrestricted in your attempt to sound Zen,...
Actually it was you:
Message 212
An unlimited "free" is self-contradictory.
Notice the total lack of the words "unlimited" and "unrestricted" in the quote you used to claim that I posted it first. This is misrepresenting the truth.
I also noticed that you were recently suspended for:
Message 197
quote:
But the clear communication of one's position and reasoning is a goal of this forum.
I can appreciate the fact that you find yourself enormously entertaining here, and previously, with your expressions of flippant contempt; it is self-evident.
It will only moderately entertain me to suspend you briefly if you continue in this vein.
Now I had a bit of a chuckle at that, as that is very much my opinion of your behavior on threads in general (in my experience). I did wait until your suspension was over before responding.
If I misinterpreted, that would mean that you asked an extraordinarily stupid question.
I win either way.
Which is but one more example of "your expressions of flippant contempt" that got you suspended eh?
I find it curious that you think you "win" by misinterpreting the positions of others.
For some reason this reminds me of others that have claimed "victory" in these debates:
Message 179
I cam,I saw,I conquored
I have not proven my points. YET i have proven that Marsupial biogeography fits creationists models of the past fine. Watch the equation.
I think I've made a Damn good case for the good guys.
All of you have withered away with serious arguement. You just ask desperate question after question revealing the poverty of your stand. After all we are all novices.
Also as usual in these circles the weaker side reverts to abuse.
You all constantly accuse me of ignorance and this and that about my ability and motives.
I have never said one negative word about any of you. Nor wish or will. We understand you can't handle our well moored confidence and feel intimidated by us.
I claim victory. I claim the kill. Hope all enjoyed and were instructed. My opponents are intellectually wearied and done.
Interestingly "Robert Byers" is no longer posting here (his last post was 10*20*2004 03:57 PM) but everyone else is. It was also in "boot camp" for what that is worth.
You are, however, STILL completely free to believe whatever you want, including that you have won a victory of words when your argument has reached the point of absurdity besides being totally off-topic.
This is, of course, more like the behavior of trolls than people truly interested in honest debate.
Enjoy.
ps - don't be surprised if you find some other empty and pointless "victory" in a lack of response to any more of your posts: I don't respond to trolls.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-20-2006 8:26 PM DominionSeraph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by DominionSeraph, posted 11-26-2006 3:18 PM RAZD has not replied

  
DominionSeraph
Member (Idle past 4754 days)
Posts: 365
From: on High
Joined: 01-26-2005


Message 230 of 354 (366099)
11-26-2006 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by RAZD
11-22-2006 8:51 PM


RAZD writes:
Which has nothing to do with "unlimited"
The absence of limits on your latter 'caged' has nothing to do with unlimited?
RAZD writes:
Notice the total lack of the words "unlimited" and "unrestricted" in the quote you used to claim that I posted it first. This is misrepresenting the truth.
Nope.
Your absence of limits (thus 'unlimited') rolls right into my "unlimited". Everything before your post was limited. Thus you started it. I never said otherwise.
RAZD writes:
I find it curious that you think you "win" by misinterpreting the positions of others.
If my interpretation assigned it the only meaning with an ounce of sense behind it, and if my interpretation was wrong...
See? I don't win by. It's just this set of circumstances gives me a win due to what's left.
RAZD writes:
This is, of course, more like the behavior of trolls
RAZD writes:
lack of response to... your posts: I don't respond to trolls.
Affirmation of the consequent.
Ya' gotta give me a harder one than that.
Edited by DominionSeraph, : No reason given.
Edited by DominionSeraph, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by RAZD, posted 11-22-2006 8:51 PM RAZD has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 231 of 354 (381891)
02-02-2007 11:14 AM


The fall
A perfect god creating a Perfect Eve would know that she would make Her decisions true to her God given nature.
The fall then becomes a leap towards the proper path.
Not a fall but a glorious leap towards our quest for knowledge.
God wants us to know the tree, that's why it is there and the fact that He has allowed us to eat of it for all these years is a clear indicator that we are doing His will, otherwise He would have ended a failed experiment years go.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by mark24, posted 02-02-2007 3:39 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 232 of 354 (381933)
02-02-2007 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Greatest I am
02-02-2007 11:14 AM


Re: The fall
GIA,
God wants us to know the tree, that's why it is there ....
Why punish us for someone else doing God's will, then?
Mark

There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 11:14 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 4:03 PM mark24 has replied
 Message 234 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 5:00 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 233 of 354 (381943)
02-02-2007 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by mark24
02-02-2007 3:39 PM


Re: The fall
If your will does not offend civil law and limitations, what punishment?
That is my first thought but I should qualify the above by saying I would need clarification of the short statement.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by mark24, posted 02-02-2007 3:39 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by mark24, posted 02-02-2007 5:36 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 234 of 354 (381952)
02-02-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by mark24
02-02-2007 3:39 PM


Re: The fall
If your will does not offend civil law and limitations, what punishment?
That is my first thought but I should qualify the above by saying I would need clarification of the short statement.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by mark24, posted 02-02-2007 3:39 PM mark24 has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 235 of 354 (381962)
02-02-2007 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Greatest I am
02-02-2007 4:03 PM


Re: The fall
GIA,
If your will does not offend civil law and limitations, what punishment?
The fall & everything that went with it.
Mark

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Greatest I am, posted 02-02-2007 4:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Nighttrain, posted 02-02-2007 7:05 PM mark24 has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 236 of 354 (381986)
02-02-2007 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by mark24
02-02-2007 5:36 PM


The whole kit `n kaboodle
GIA,
If your will does not offend civil law and limitations, what punishment?
The fall & everything that went with it.
Mark
Including the greatest collection of predators ever assembled on one planet (AFAIK)--virii, bacteria, fungi, insects, sea and land critters--the list goes on. What did I do to offend the Big Guy but assert my right to free will, saying He doesn`t exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by mark24, posted 02-02-2007 5:36 PM mark24 has not replied

  
override
Junior Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 12-06-2008


Message 237 of 354 (490654)
12-06-2008 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by mike the wiz
11-04-2006 3:49 PM


Hopefully I'm not too late into this, but can you elaborate more on your room analogy.
mike the wiz said:
"If you're in a room and you can choose from chocolate or fruit, and there's another room where you can choose the same, only in one room God is watching, would you choose differently?
No! Therefore we can infer that God's knowledge doesn't affect the individual's choice."
Do you mean, that what you do in one room will affect the other room? That if you choose the fruit in on room, you will also choose a fruit in the other room, or if instead you choose the chocolate in one room you will also choose a chocolate in the other room? But god is only in one room. I want you to elaborate, if you can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by mike the wiz, posted 11-04-2006 3:49 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 12-07-2008 9:07 AM override has replied
 Message 241 by Blue Jay, posted 12-08-2008 12:34 AM override has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 238 of 354 (490683)
12-07-2008 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by override
12-06-2008 7:03 PM


Depends on who God is to you
Hi, override and welcome to EvC!
Some people believe that humanity ultimately imagined God.
Others go out on a limb and assert that God exists and imagined us long before we had the mental capability to imagine Him.
What do you believe?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by override, posted 12-06-2008 7:03 PM override has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by override, posted 12-07-2008 9:18 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 240 by bluescat48, posted 12-07-2008 11:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
override
Junior Member (Idle past 5589 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 12-06-2008


Message 239 of 354 (490734)
12-07-2008 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
12-07-2008 9:07 AM


Re: Depends on who God is to you
Um what? I just wanted to know what that person meant by his or her room analogy, because he or she claimed to have proven free will to be compatible with a self contradiction, omniscience-omnipotence.
I believe humanity was created by the ORI. Hallowed are the ORI

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 12-07-2008 9:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 240 of 354 (490740)
12-07-2008 11:29 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Phat
12-07-2008 9:07 AM


Re: Depends on who God is to you
What do you believe?
I believe that man created God in his image with all the same biases, prejudices & stupidity of himself.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Phat, posted 12-07-2008 9:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by jaywill, posted 12-08-2008 1:04 AM bluescat48 has replied

  
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