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Author Topic:   Religious Affiliation and Health
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 2 of 17 (382980)
02-06-2007 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by truthlover
02-02-2007 10:02 AM


truthlover writes:
"... mortality risk varies substantially by religious affiliation,
I have been aware of that association for some time. Seventh-day Adventists are quite enamored of their fame in this regard. Personally, however, having been raised Seventh-day Adventist, groomed for the ministry, and subsequently (long story short) a self proclaimed atheist - I have a rather different take on the facts of this matter. For me, freedom of thought is an important aspect of existence without which there can be no quality of life. For me, affiliation with the SDA church precluded the 'liberty' which that institution promises in such glowing terms. And they are not alone in hawking a purported new lease on life. I must therefore issue my rather insensitive but deadly serious, and not unrelated, observation:
People on drugs, people on life support, and people who engage in low risk occupations tend to live longer than those who daily risk their lives and avoid or cannot obtain good medical care.
That said, I wish to comment on the question of prayer.
Do you think it's true that the outcomes of trials of prayer cannot be interpreted as 'proof/disproof' of God's response to those praying, but could only show an effect of prayer not dependent on divine intervention? If so, why?
Prayer works equally well for persons who do not believe in God. Thus, the outcome of those trials can neither prove nor disprove the existence or intervention of a deity.
Do you think prayer studies or health outcome studies can validly determine the effect of prayer?
I imagine they might if one could quantify and/or qualify exactly that which constitues prayer to such a degree that one could distinguish between test subjects who know how to pray and those who do not. If we were to attempt this as a scientific experiment we would need a definition of prayer which sees beyond linguistic and sectarian considerations to focus on the universally human factors involved in prayer, i.e. what is actually happening, neurologically, in the brain. We would have to come up with a definition of prayer which applies equally to Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Pagan, and Atheist formats of 'spiritual' petition.
Do you think they should have any applicability to choice of lifestyles?
Are you asking whether study subjects should be grouped according to "choice of lifesyle"? Why would one do that? To enrich the success of a group one expects to pray more effectively? Or are you asking if the outcome of the experiment might influence one's decision regarding whether or not to affiliate himself with an organized religion? If that is what you mean, then I would recommend you don't count these chickens until they are hatched.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by truthlover, posted 02-02-2007 10:02 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 5:44 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 3 of 17 (383187)
02-07-2007 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by truthlover
02-02-2007 10:02 AM


Please Respond
A response from you would be appreciated, even if it is only an acknowledgement that you are aware of my reply to your OP.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by truthlover, posted 02-02-2007 10:02 AM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 3:04 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 5 of 17 (383306)
02-07-2007 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by truthlover
02-07-2007 3:04 PM


Re: Please Respond
Thank you TL.
Sounds like your eyes are almost as good as mine.
Looking forward to hearing from you.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 3:04 PM truthlover has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 7 of 17 (383332)
02-07-2007 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by truthlover
02-07-2007 5:44 PM


truthlover writes:
Really not sure what any of those categories have to do with each other, why you brought them up, or if any of that matters.
The point is that there are many things which can contribute to extended survival. Scientifically, these must be considered variables, because, for example, persons of a certain socio-economic status may tend to gravitate toward certain religious groups, e.g. Mormon, or Seventh-day Adventist. If memory serves, SDA's boast a higher percentage of medical doctors in their ranks. That, it seems, is a significant factor with potential to change the outcome of the study. If the membership lives longer because it has a higher percentage of health professionals then it may say nothing about the effect of what one ordinarily imagines to be 'religious' teachings.
The question was, even if they did hatch, would there be any reason to pick a new lifestyle.
If the outcome indicated that prayer can make one immortal then, sure, many would want to have a go at it. But that is likely all they'd want: to learn to pray. If, on the other hand, the outcome showed that such salvation can only accrue to those who practice polygamy, drink red wine and regularly go skinny dipping, then many might consider changing their lifestyle. But ... as the saying goes ... 'you can't get there from here.' As I attempted to suggest before: the question can't really be answered until the studies are complete and have been subjected to the scientific 'gauntlet,' i.e. until something 'hatches.' Otherwise it remains a big 'if' and discussion of it remains in the realm of speculation. Scientifically speaking, of course.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 5:44 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 6:48 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 11 of 17 (383414)
02-08-2007 12:26 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by truthlover
02-07-2007 6:48 PM


truthlover writes:
... I didn't suggest SDA's longer life has anything to do with religious teachings.
Did I misunderstand the following?
... persons who participate regularly in religious activities live longer ... particularly Latter-day Saints (Mormons), Seventh-Day Adventists, Amish, and Hutterites," ...
Are you suggesting that religious teaching and religious activity are unrelated?
Seventh Day Adventists are religiously taught that they should strive to live healthfully. Healthful living is for them a religious activity which they pursue according to the religious teaching. This, they believe, is what gives them an edge in the longevity game. How does one dissect religious practice from religious teaching or declare either to be other than religious activity?

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by truthlover, posted 02-07-2007 6:48 PM truthlover has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by truthlover, posted 02-08-2007 12:52 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
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