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Author Topic:   The Barbarity of Christianity (as compared to Islam)
Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 214 of 299 (384006)
02-09-2007 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
02-10-2006 12:59 PM


Re: setting the record straight
Hey Jar, Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth has a partial list down at the bottom of Islamic attacks in the last 3 months. There's also a spot that says Islamic terrorists kill more people each year than the entire 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition.
Open your eyes. This isn't even a debate.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by jar, posted 02-10-2006 12:59 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 02-09-2007 7:04 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 215 of 299 (384007)
02-09-2007 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by inkorrekt
08-27-2006 2:40 AM


Re: TOPIC
They do not kill innocent civilians.
Allow me to correct you. We do not target civilians. But in our operations, innocent civilians do die. Its an ugly fact of war.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by inkorrekt, posted 08-27-2006 2:40 AM inkorrekt has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Chiroptera, posted 02-09-2007 7:36 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 218 of 299 (384186)
02-10-2007 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Chiroptera
02-09-2007 7:36 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
I'm not sure what you mean by "better." Please elaborate.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Chiroptera, posted 02-09-2007 7:36 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Chiroptera, posted 02-10-2007 3:07 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 219 of 299 (384189)
02-10-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by jar
02-09-2007 7:04 PM


Re: setting the record straight
look at the total irradication of whole cultures and peoples.
In case you missed it, this is the Islamists stated intent towards you.
I may ask does anyone know how many folk were killed during the Spanish Inquisition?
Page not found - Crisis Magazine
But not so with the Spanish Inquisition. In its 350-year lifespan only about 4,000 people were put to the stake....
Thomas F. Madden is associate professor and chairman of the Department of History at Saint Louis University. He is the author of numerous works, including most recently A Concise History of the Crusades (Rowman & Littlefield, 1999) and Enrico Dandolo and the Rise of Venice (Johns Hopkins University Press, 2003).
On high weeks, more than 1,000 innocent people per week are killed worldwide by Islamic violence.
Don't get me wrong Jar, I'm not saying Christianity didn't commit barbaric acts in its history, I'm just saying there's no comparison when you compare raw numbers. Also keep in mind Islam was started and spread via military conquest, which would seem to logically lend it to be more barbaric than Christianity.
Not to mention yesterday we found a body in the slice of Baghdad I'm operating in. It was a Sunni killed by a Shia death squad. His face was ripped off.
Edited by Tal, : No reason given.
Edited by Tal, : No reason given.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 02-09-2007 7:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 02-10-2007 1:53 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 222 of 299 (384198)
02-10-2007 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by jar
02-10-2007 1:53 PM


Re: setting the record straight
Which is not Islamic violence
Yes, it is Islamic violence. It was a Shia deathsquad targetting a Sunni.
That is an internal power struggle
Internally between Sunni and Shia.
The key point Tal is that very little violence is really religion based
No, it is religion based violence.
The rest of your post is ignorant political nattering.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by jar, posted 02-10-2007 1:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by iceage, posted 02-10-2007 2:20 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 226 by jar, posted 02-10-2007 2:37 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 227 by subbie, posted 02-10-2007 2:42 PM Tal has replied
 Message 283 by inkorrekt, posted 03-11-2007 6:59 PM Tal has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 232 of 299 (384219)
02-10-2007 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by subbie
02-10-2007 2:42 PM


Re: setting the record straight
May I ask, based on what?
I'm an Intelligence Analyst on my second tour in Iraq, both of which I've been in Baghdad, the center of gravity for violence.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by subbie, posted 02-10-2007 2:42 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by subbie, posted 02-10-2007 3:18 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 236 of 299 (384224)
02-10-2007 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Chiroptera
02-10-2007 3:07 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
When you engage in an activity knowing that innocent people are going to be killed, how do you escape moral culpability when those people are killed?
The key to your question is knowing.
Let me tell you about an incident at one of our snap VCPs (Vehicle Control Point) that happened recently (and happens far too often). A vehicle approached the VCP, and did not stop when flagged to slow down by the Paratrooper. The Paratrooper then used his escalation of force procedures. The EOF went to 2 warning shots ,the vehicle still did not stop, and then the Paratrooper fired several rounds at the driver. The vehicle stopped. Inside was a man, who was dead from multiple bullet wounds. Behind him in the backseat, was a little girl, who also died from multiplel bullet wounds. The badguys know how to test our forces, and they do so while putting innocent people in harms way, knowing they will probably be killed. I don't hold the soldier who fired the shots responsible for her death, I hold the person that put her in the car responsible.
The key point is, we don't target civlians, and we don't go on raids where we know we are going to kill X number of innocent people. It just happens. That is morally unequivocal to someone who drives a car into a crowd of people shopping for dinner, or someone who puts children into cars that are testing our TTPs (tactics, techniques, and procedures).

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Chiroptera, posted 02-10-2007 3:07 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Chiroptera, posted 02-10-2007 4:56 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 238 of 299 (384228)
02-10-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by subbie
02-10-2007 3:18 PM


Re: setting the record straight
I suppose you think I'm going to be impressed by your credentials. I am, as far as Intelligence goes. And, I'm also grateful for the service you provide to our country. I really am. However, that doesn't make you any more an expert on comparative religions than I am.
I'm just telling you that so you know that I am in the thick of it, and I see every report in Baghdad on a daily basis regarding this topic. That's all. It doesn't make me an expert in comparative religions, but the motives behind the murders and who is carrying them out, that I do know. And yes, some murders are carried out by people with criminal motivation (money), most by people with religious motivation (I'm a Sunni so I'm going to kill you Shia since you killed my Sunni buddy), and ALL of them are controlled/guided/commanded by transidealogues (Islam will wipe Israel off the map, the West is bad, type guys. These are upper tier personalites whose influence spreads across countries).
So, in short, the criminally movitated are still paid by the religeously motivated.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by subbie, posted 02-10-2007 3:18 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by subbie, posted 02-10-2007 4:04 PM Tal has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 256 of 299 (384412)
02-11-2007 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Chiroptera
02-10-2007 4:56 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
Ben Stine put it best:
Greetings From Rancho Mirage
BY: Ben Stein, Open Letter
02/02/2007
Dear Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines, National Guard, Reservists, in Iraq, in the Middle East theater, in Afghanistan, in the area near Afghanistan, in any base anywhere in the world, and your families:
Let me tell you about why you guys own about 90 percent of the backbone in the whole world right now and should be happy with yourselves and proud of whom you are.
It was a dazzlingly hot day here in Rancho Mirage today. I did small errands like going to the bank to pay my mortgage, finding a new bed at a price I can afford, practicing driving with my new 5 wood, paying bills for about two hours. I spoke for a long time to a woman who is going through a nasty child custody fight. I got e-mails from a woman who was fired today from her job for not paying attention. I read about multi-billion-dollar mergers in Europe, Asia, and the Mideast. I noticed how overweight I am, for the millionth time. In other words, I did a lot of nothing.
Like every other American who is not in the armed forces family, I basically just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic in my trivial, self-important, meaningless way.
Above all, I talked to a friend of more than forty-three years who told me he thought his life had no meaning because all he did was count his money. And, friends in the armed forces, this is the story of all of America today. We are doing nothing but treading water while you guys carry on the life or death struggle against worldwide militant Islamic terrorism. Our lives are about nothing: paying bills, going to humdrum jobs, waiting until we can go to sleep and then do it all again. Our most vivid issues are trivia compared with what you do every day, every minute, every second.
Oprah Winfrey talks a lot about "meaning" in life. For her, "meaning" is dieting and then having her photo on the cover of her magazine every single month (surely a new world record for egomania). This is not "meaning."
- Meaning is doing for others.
- Meaning is risking your life for hers.
- Meaning is putting your bodies and families' peace of mind on the line to defeat some of the most evil, sick killers the world has ever known.
- Meaning is leaving the comfort of home to fight to make sure that there still will be a home for your family and for your nation and for free men and women everywhere.
Look, soldiers and Marines and sailors and airmen and Coast Guardsmen, there are six billion people in this world. The whole fate of this world turns on what you people, 1.4 million, more or less, do every day. The fate of mankind depends on what about 2/100 of one percent of the people in this world do every day and you are those people. And joining you is every policeman, fireman, and Emergency Medical Technician in the country, also holding back the tide of chaos.
Do you know how important you are? Do you know how indispensable you are? Do you know how humbly grateful any of us who has a head on his shoulders is to you? Do you know that if you never do another thing in your lives, you will always still be heroes? That we could live without Hollywood or Wall Street or the NFL, but we cannot live for a week without you?
We are on our knees to you and we bless and pray for you every moment.
And Oprah Winfrey, if she were a size two, would not have one millionth of your importance, and all of the Wall Street billionaires will never mean what the least of you do, and if Barry Bonds hits hundreds of home runs it would not mean as much as you going on one patrol or driving one truck to the Baghdad airport.
You are everything to us, as we go through our little days, and you are in the prayers of the nation and of every decent man and woman on the planet. That's who you are and what you mean. I hope you know that.
Love,
Ben Stein

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Chiroptera, posted 02-10-2007 4:56 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by docpotato, posted 02-11-2007 1:41 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 258 by subbie, posted 02-11-2007 2:32 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 259 by Chiroptera, posted 02-11-2007 2:35 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 264 by Nighttrain, posted 02-11-2007 10:48 PM Tal has replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 263 of 299 (384501)
02-11-2007 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by gene90
02-11-2007 5:57 PM


Re: Who's barbaric?
To play devils advocate, I really can't think of a non-barbaric way to kill the enemy in war. We talk to them with 5.56, and if that doesn't work we shout at them with 7.62. And if all else fails we call in close air support and an Apache or some F-16 comes in and blows them up. The fact that someone dies this way could always be said to be barbaric. However, killing someone who is trying to kill me by using one of these methods is justifiable (and our job as a military). Using one of these methods to kill people who can't defend themselves is not.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by gene90, posted 02-11-2007 5:57 PM gene90 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Buzsaw, posted 02-11-2007 11:03 PM Tal has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 269 of 299 (384621)
02-12-2007 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Nighttrain
02-11-2007 10:48 PM


Re: We're just better, dammit!
Those patriots-oops-terrorists are the ones killing the families.
Turning and running (thus giving the patriots-oops-terrorists a huge victory over the lone super-power of the world) will only show these guys that what they do (killing wife/husband/family) will work to get their way. And they'll continue, only next time it will be in your market.

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Nighttrain, posted 02-11-2007 10:48 PM Nighttrain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by subbie, posted 02-12-2007 3:05 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 275 by Nighttrain, posted 02-12-2007 8:06 PM Tal has not replied

Tal
Member (Idle past 5699 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 270 of 299 (384624)
02-12-2007 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Chiroptera
02-12-2007 8:03 AM


Re: What spirit?
Christian societies have been violent and comparable Islamic societies have not.
Hello Chiroptera, would you please show me these Islamic societies. Islam was started by Muhammad by military conquest. His successors, the first 4 Caliphs who were chosen because they were the best qualified and not members of his family (this is where the Sunni sect comes from), spread Islam by military conquest for the next 30 years or so. Then Muhammad's son-in-law, Ali (this is where the Shia come from, they think Muhammad's power should have passed only to his family, so they regard Ali as the first Caliph) took over and imposed a tax on all non-muslims, which further bolstered the ranks.
At any rate, which Islamic society do you believe has been peaceful?

News Media: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory 1 negative report at a time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Chiroptera, posted 02-12-2007 8:03 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Chiroptera, posted 02-13-2007 10:32 AM Tal has not replied

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