The Barbarity of Christianity (as compared to Islam)

Fine, provide the quotes with links so we can see them in context or retract your assertion.It really is that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Provide quotes where I said Christianity is evil, in context or I will ask that you be banned from this board for misrepresentation and dishonesty.Fine, provide the quotes with links so we can see them in context or retract your assertion.It really is that simple.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The only issue underdiscussion here is wehther or not I said Christianity is evil and the context of that statement. You are trying to move the goal posts yet again as you always do when you are faced with a clear example of your misrepresentations.In Message 93 you said: Now either support that assertion or retract it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Again, you misrepresent what I said. Please point out EVEN in the parts you quotemined (and failed to give links to the messages) where I said "that Christianity is evil, both in the past and present." Folk are fully capable of reading what you post, and then how you distort what is said. They can decide who is lying.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Please show where I have said "that Christianity is evil" or retract your assertion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

randman, support the assertion that you made in Message 93 or retract it.To help you remember, you said "Jar is saying that the belief system and religion called Christianity is evil, but then says he is a Christian."It really is as simple as that.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Let's not change the subject randman!Either support the assertion you made in Message 93 that I have said "Christianity is evil" or retract it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Send troops and ships to help evacuate and resettle the Jews expelled by Christianity from Spain?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

LOL Pretty much typical bullshit. Just how I may ask does anyone know how many folk were killed during the Spanish Inquisition?But while right now many terrorists are Islamic, Christianity acted in barbaric ways for about 2000 years. Look at the many, many times the Jews have been driven out of countries, look at the total irradication of whole cultures and peoples.Open your eyes. This isn't even a debate.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Which is not Islamic violence unless you want to include all those Iraqi's killed by US Soldiers as being Christian violence. That is an internal power struggle (and one that was a foregone conclusion long before the invasion).There was absolutely no doubt that the result of invading Iraq would be a civil war involving Kurd, Shia and Sunni populations. There seems to be two possibilities. One is that the Administration was so stupid that it did not realize that that was a recognized problem stretching back at least 100 years. The second is that the Administration knew that such a civil war was the most likely result and thought it to be an acceptable outcome. The only other possibility is that it was the desired outcome.If the former is true then the Administration was grossly negligent.If the later is true the all of the Iraqi deaths, many hundreds of thousands, can be laid at the feet of Christian George Bush.The US invaded Iraq, Tal, just in case you hadn't noticed. Most of the violence and death there has been caused by the US.And if we want to get into tossing around examples, I can point to a few cases where US soldiers targeted civilians and killed (even raped) them.The key point Tal is that very little violence is really religion based. The current Islamic violence world wide is not so much religion based as (as it almost always is) power and political.Islam is not a threat.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The general answer to your question is "Yes and No."Racism and barbarism may well be simply human characteristics (along with there opposites as well).But in the case of burning folk at the stake to save their souls or because the people were thought to be witches, the proximate cause was Christianity.The continued expulsion of Jews throughout Europe had as its proximate cause Christianity. The fact that we are speaking of Jewish Expulsion (and we should also be including other pogroms such as special taxation and ghettos) makes those events religiously driven. The people may also have been xenophobic in general and there were other groups who were also targeted (Romany being one example) but the "Jewish Question" was based on Christian dogma. Complicated. Since the treatment and acceptance of individual freedoms varies greatly among Islamic Nations that is very hard to answer. Indonesia is far different than Saudi Arabia. That too makes some assumptions I believe unwarranted. For example, the idea of a modern day Christian Nation. I am not at all sure that other than the Vatican, there is a Modern Day Christian Nation. But I agree with most of that. When looking at events, religion is most often simply used as one tool to persuade the general public to follow some course of action. The Crusades were not religious in nature, they were political.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, it is religion based in that the participants may have a religious affiliation but it is a political struggle to gain POWER, control.Shia and Sunni are not killing each other over their beliefs, but rather their political membership. It is NOT an attempt to convert religious beliefs but rather to aquire power or keep from losing power. Not really Tal. The issue of the Kurd, Sunni and Shia is not new. If you look at history, you will find that the issue has been discussed at least since the late 1800s.Shia, Sunni and Kurd are all Islamic. The control of resources and political power though has historically been held by only one of the three factions. It is that issue, access to resources and power, not religion, that leads to the violence.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

True. True. True. But there are also Christians who hold to the same mode of behavior. In the US, the threat is usually more subtle than violence, but we still see the good Christians lining up shouting that God Hates Fags and bombing abortion clinics. Not all that long ago good US Christians were bombing churches and hanging folk.Religion is a powerful tool to sway the masses, particularly ignorant masses.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think a very important point IS that the situation is complicated.Religion, IMHO, whether Christianity or Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or whatever flavor, is most often simply a tool. Almost always the question boils down to "Who controls certain resources and power." I would disagree there.IMHO the greatest danger is Ignorance, just plain Ignorance. Historically, Islam has been as accepting of other cultures, perhaps even more than Christianity, than any other Theocratic Political movement.When Christian Spain expelled the Jews, it was a Muslim Caliph that welcomed them and even sent ships to transport them away from Spain. It was the Islamic world that maintained knowledge and education during the period of the Christian Dark Ages.Even under the Islamic Caliphate in Spain, Christian Monasteries continued to thrive, and it was in a large part, those monks and nuns that returned to more northern Europe from those monasteries bring back tales of indoor plumbing and clean streets and hospitals and schools that lead to the great awakening that followed the Dark Ages.Islam today is threatened (and the rest of the world as well) by virulent strains of Fundamentalism. It is that, Fundamentalism, that is the issue. The facts are that right now Fundamentalism does not hold strong political control in much of the west. However, that does not mean that we are free from the threat of Fundamentalism any more than Islam was.Like the Islamic world, which at one time was the height of tolerance, education and enlightenment, we face the threat of a rise in Fundamentalism. Should we see a continued increase in what I call the Christian Cult of Ignorance, we too could rapidly descend to a state of sectarian warfare and intolerance.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Except for the fact, of course, that Al Queda was not In Iraq and was already in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.But then Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 either.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion