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Author Topic:   Dreams
Paul_in_Cyprus
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 11 (31726)
02-08-2003 6:25 AM


How did the dreams evolve? What possible advantage could they of given? Do animals have dreams(not certain how this could be found out)?
Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5348
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2 of 11 (31733)
02-08-2003 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Paul_in_Cyprus
02-08-2003 6:25 AM


I don't know whether there's any "advantage" to having dreams, but it's pretty well known that depriving people of dreamtime (by waking them whenever they enter REM sleep) makes them very crazy after a few days. Stalin's secret police used this technique a lot as a non-destructive torture. I have certainly seen dogs who appear to be dreaming - making noises, "running" in their sleep, etc. I'm sure some Google searching would also unearth some research on whether dogs, chimps, or whatever have REM sleep, and which parts of their brains are active while they do.

Speaking from ignorance, I would find it surprising that the "higher functions" of the brain would completely shut down just because you're asleep - I'd think that dreams are to be expected in critters with enough frontal lobe to make the concept of "dream" meaningful.


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Dr Cresswell
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 11 (31738)
02-08-2003 12:20 PM


The fact that dream deprivation results in psychological disorders indicates quite strongly that dreaming serves a vital function, at least in higher functioning brains (ie: human rather than, say, rat). I have heard the suggestion that dreams are a sort of replay of the days events without our conscious brain restricting the associations made, it's suggested that this allows us to both reinforce those events into our memory and make connections between events that would otherwise be missed.

Alan


  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1841 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 4 of 11 (32659)
02-19-2003 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Paul_in_Cyprus
02-08-2003 6:25 AM


Would it be useful to pint out that ToE does
not suggest that every extant trait exists
because it provides and advantage?

Some traits provide an advantage and are selected for,
other traits just exist, and get passed on with the
selected for ones.

If dreams are a 'necesary' part of brain function in humans,
there is no reason to assume that other animals don't
also dream. As someone else pointed out, I have seen dogs asleep
whimpering and twitching their feet, whilst having rapid eye
movements, and cats, and, to a lesser degree (and without much
human-audible noise or eye motions) my pet rats too.


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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 11 (35264)
03-25-2003 9:23 PM


I'm familiar with a study that suggested dreams are used by the brain to "solidify" learned behaviors and responses. The study analyzed subjects' abilities to play Tetris (the falling blocks game, we're all familiar with it, right?) before and after periods of natural sleep. Those that had dreams featuring motifs of falling blocks scored measurably higher in Tetris performance the next day.

As a mechanism for the solidification and reinforcement of learned behavior, then, there's no reason to assume that animal brains don't also employ the same technique. As others have said, dogs appear to "chase" while sleeping, and studies confirm that animals experience sleeping brain states very similar to humans in REM sleep.

I think it's safe to say that animals dream, but that they dream about pretty much the same things they do awake, i.e. chase stuff or get chased, eat, and mate.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5348
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 6 of 11 (35266)
03-25-2003 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by crashfrog
03-25-2003 9:23 PM


but that they dream about pretty much the same things they do awake, i.e. chase stuff or get chased, eat, and mate.

Weeelllll...., that sounds a lot like us. My dog dreams about that little cocker spaniel down the street, and I dream about Winona Ryder.....
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 11 (35277)
03-26-2003 12:53 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coragyps
03-25-2003 9:40 PM


On a personal note, I find that I have far more dreams about flying and fighting monsters than I do about, uh, mating. Unless I've been playng too many video games.

Geez, am I a nerd or what?

------------------
Epimenedes Signature: This is not a signature.


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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 11 (36282)
04-04-2003 1:20 PM


I read an interesting article recently (sadly in print, so no link) that suggested that what happens during a dream is the biological equivalent of your computer defragmenting. Unnecessary data is removed, and what's left is organized a little.

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-----------
Dan Carroll


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Mister Pamboli
Member (Idle past 5495 days)
Posts: 634
From: Washington, USA
Joined: 12-10-2001


Message 9 of 11 (36289)
04-04-2003 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Dan Carroll
04-04-2003 1:20 PM


another thread
www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=90&m=21#21 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=90&m=21#21">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=6&t=90&m=21#21

schraf and I have been discussing something similar on the above thread


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Data
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 11 (38579)
05-01-2003 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Paul_in_Cyprus
02-08-2003 6:25 AM


quote:
How did the dreams evolve? What possible advantage could they of given? Do animals have dreams(not certain how this could be found out)?

Animals do have dreams.

I have a friend whos dog trys to run and bark while sleeping


This message is a reply to:
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Peter
Member (Idle past 1841 days)
Posts: 2160
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 11 of 11 (38585)
05-01-2003 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by crashfrog
03-25-2003 9:23 PM


It's safe to say they dream (based upon observed sleeping
behaviour), but as to what they dream ... I think that's beyond
us at present.
This message is a reply to:
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