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Author Topic:   Was Christ a communist?
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 128 (389670)
03-14-2007 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by bluegenes
03-14-2007 7:19 PM


bluegenes writes:
... as the interpreters of the Bible have invariably been from non-egalitarian societies, there might always be a tendency to play down Christ's (possible) egalitarian message.
So you keep suggesting, but with little reference to what the message actually was.
In "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs", Jesus emphasized the from side of the equation - the responsibility to give, not the right to take, or even to have. His message was not to the lumpenproletariat, it was to the bourgeoisie.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 69 of 128 (389676)
03-14-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by anastasia
03-14-2007 7:56 PM


anastasia writes:
The point is that our responsiblity to each other is the same.
Maybe it should be mentioned too that that responsibility isn't just financial. Everybody has something to give: time, a sympathetic ear....
"Suffer the little children to come unto me" doesn't involve money.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 73 of 128 (389681)
03-14-2007 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by anastasia
03-14-2007 8:23 PM


anastasia writes:
I mentioned it.
I guess it didn't resonate with me until I thought of it myself.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 128 (389895)
03-16-2007 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by anastasia
03-16-2007 1:21 PM


Re: From Paul?!!
anastasia writes:
There are Christian denoms ....
Abbrevs like that play havoc with my dyslexia.
(I also have a problem with "young-earth cartoonists".)
Christ taught love, peace, and cooperation. He did not tell us how we should build our political structures.
That might have something to do with the fact that He was in the middle of a very powerful empire. Talking politics directly would have been about as sensible as holding a Ku Klux Klan rally on the White House lawn.
You and I seem to be on the same page regarding Jesus' message: to individuals rather than to societies. Maybe He expected goodness to have a trickle-up effect.
But that doesn't absolve us of the responsibility to be "good" in the politics that we do involve ourselves in.
All of our systems fail when we lose sight of the ideal, including communism and monasticism.
And conservatism.
The ideal is practical, not doctrinaire.
Unfortunately, too many Christians see it the other way around.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 94 of 128 (389943)
03-16-2007 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by bebotx1
03-16-2007 8:21 PM


bebotx1 writes:
Commies and Socialists are hippies. Jesus was not a commie. What is your malfunction soilder??
Apparently your major malfunction is failure to read the thread.
I have been saying all along that Jesus was not a communist.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 99 of 128 (390092)
03-18-2007 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by bluegenes
03-18-2007 9:32 AM


Re: Christ was a communist!
bluegenes writes:
A communard, meaning a person who lives in a small group of persons “sharing possessions, work, income etc., and often pursuing unconventional lifestyles” is a communist by one of the definitions under “communist” above.
There is a reason why we have a different word, "communard" - to distinguish "communalism" form communism.
And Jesus wasn't necessarily a communalist either. Every group of guys who pool their gas money for a road trip is not necessarily a commune.
Did Christ practice communism?
You'd have to come up with something to indicate that He practised communalism - not just sharing.
He certainly seems to have recommended it to his followers at the time.
He recommended "sell what you have and give to the poor" to one rich man - who didn't follow.
Dig a hole and plant those goalposts. This is getting embarassing.
-------------
ABE: I have been informed that "one" is an underestimate.
See Message 101 below.
Edited by Ringo, : Calculator malfunction - can't count past "one".

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 102 of 128 (390379)
03-20-2007 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by truthlover
03-19-2007 11:32 PM


Re: Christ was a communist!
truthlover writes:
Actually, he also recommended it to at least his entire "little flock" in Luk 12:33. Acts 2 thru 4 suggested that group did follow.
Fair enough. I stand corrcted.
Do you think there's any indication that Jesus advocated communal use of resources as opposed to just sharing? My impression is that the early Christians who practised "communism" were embellishing somewhat on His words.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 108 of 128 (391351)
03-24-2007 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by CTD
03-23-2007 6:52 AM


Re: Where'd I go wrong?
CTD writes:
I always thought it was self-evident that God invented private property.
Actually, I think it was the Americans who invented the modern concept of "private property".
For most of human history, the rich have owned all the private property and the poor have owned nothing. That's the situation that Jesus was trying to alleviate and that Marx was trying to overthrow.
It wasn't until the American Dream was dreamt that the concept of everybody having private property became widespread. In a sense, the American ideal of every-man-a-capitalist is more communist than "Communism".

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ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 110 of 128 (391382)
03-24-2007 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by truthlover
03-24-2007 7:27 PM


I just meant that the American Dream has a levelling quality to it - "from each according to his abilities to each according to his need" in terms of oppurtunity if not outcome. Everybody has the oppurtunity to achieve, regardless of his starting place.
(To paraphrase Homer Simpson: If you're going to pick up on every stupid thing I say, I guess I'll just have to stop saying stupid things." )

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