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Author Topic:   A Guide to Creationist Tactics
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 79 of 136 (390140)
03-18-2007 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by jt
03-18-2007 4:06 PM


Re: cognitive dissonance and belief
Hey JT, welcome back.
Cognitive dissonance does not come from holding beliefs that conflict with reality; it comes from being aware of the conflict. My suspicion is that VenomFangX sincerely believes that the evidence is on his side, and does not suffer from cognitive dissonance at all.
But he is in dissonance -- that is why he has to label evolution a lie to maintain his beliefs. He believes the evidence is on his side because he rejects all the other evidence as lies.
The nature of the most types of fundamentalist philosophy makes it difficult to see alternatives as anything but insane; if someone is a fundamentalist, almost by necessity that person will have an extremely high level of confidence. But this does not mean that fundamentalists have been brainwashed. They have simply heard arguments, weighed evidence and concluded that one side is dramatically more convincing than the other.
It's not simply hearing arguments from both sides and choosing to be a fundamentalist. It's more being bombarded by fundamentalist propaganda along with strong {religious\home\peer} pressure to succumb -- hence the authoritarianism reference and link. Seeing as - in this case - it likely started at a young age and in a protected environment (VenomFangX was likely home-schooled or went to a creationist run school, I'd guess) it does indeed amount to brainwashing.
I don’t think this is an accurate characterization of most fundamentalists.
I agree that it doesn't apply to all fundamentalists, just those where authoritarianism\absolutism comes into the picture.
As an aside, interactions on this discussion board (some even with you!) have converted at least several fundamentalist creationist posters to some variety of evolutionist (myself included), and have likely done the same to many lurkers. I think that most fundamentalists are sufficiently open-minded and rational that they could work through the cognitive dissonance and change their mind if they thought they were in error.
I think those (few on record) that have converted were questioning types of individuals. It only takes one psychologist to change a lightbulb ... if the bulb wants to change.
Compare those that convert to Randman or Herepton: there are some that will never convert, imh(ysa)o, without some kind of intervention.
Thanks.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 80 of 136 (390149)
03-18-2007 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by princesszin
03-18-2007 4:08 PM


Re: cognitive dissonance and belief
What I found frightening is that Kabane52 received many comments (several hundred) on his videos. There are quite a few among them such as 'shut up fatty' or something to that effect.
Ah the power of self-righteous aggression.
Shaw Communications
quote:
But high RWAs typically think they’re way, way better. They are the Holy Ones. They are the Chosen. They are the Righteous. They somehow got a three-for-one special on self-righteousness. And self-righteousness appears to release authoritarian aggression more than anything else.
Despite all the things in scriptures about loving others, forgiving others, leaving punishment to God, and so on, authoritarian followers feel empowered to isolate and segregate, to humiliate, to persecute, to beat, and to kill in the middle of the night, because in their heads they can almost hear the loudspeakers announcing, “Now batting for God’s team, his designated hitter, (their name).”
The militant followers that will gladly fly a plane into a building. It does not matter what the religion is.
Yes it's scary.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by princesszin, posted 03-18-2007 4:08 PM princesszin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by princesszin, posted 03-19-2007 3:22 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 84 of 136 (390337)
03-19-2007 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by princesszin
03-19-2007 3:22 PM


Re: cognitive dissonance and belief
What is RWA?
Sorry, should have explained that. The book uses that as short-hand for "Right-Wing Authoritarian"
Shaw Communications
quote:
Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the “proper” authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
2) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
3) a high level of conventionalism.
Because the submission occurs to traditional authority, I call these followers rightwing authoritarians.
He also notes that you can be politically liberal and still have RWA tendencies.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by princesszin, posted 03-19-2007 3:22 PM princesszin has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 86 of 136 (397851)
04-28-2007 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
11-17-2006 11:35 AM


Someone Who Cares and the Tactics of Delusion
Another classic bravado stance, exemplified by Someone who cares on
Message 98:
quote:
I started reading the first couple and I could think up of a simple reply for each of them, and as for the more complex issues- I could research them and come up with a reply anyway because I've got the truth on my side, so I will always win.
The fact that one can "think up" an answer does not make it true, and assuming that your answer is true before hand is a logical fallacy. What we see here is a declaration of delusion:
delusion -noun1. an act or instance of deluding.
2. the state of being deluded.
3. a false belief or opinion: delusions of grandeur.
4. Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion.
Truth is demonstrated by the validity of the argument and the way it explains the evidence. All the evidence, not just bits and pieces.
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : fixed stray symbols

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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