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Author | Topic: Criticizing neo-Darwinism | |||||||||||||||||||||||
MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
Atheist Nietzsche apparently ridiculed contemporary darwinism in his last work
Die Gtzen-Dmmerung - Twilight of the Idols http://www.handprint.com/SC/NIE/GotDamer.html
quote: Edited by MartinV, : No reason given.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
Fridriech Nietzsche on darwinism
What does a philosopher's opinion on biology matter? Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
What does a philosopher's opinion on biology matter?
And what does a graduated theologist Darwin's opinion on biology matter? ---- In his finals in January 1831, Darwin performed well in theology and, having scraped through in classics, mathematics and physics, came tenth out of a pass list of 178. Edited by MartinV, : No reason given.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
And what does a graduated theologist Darwin's opinion on biology matter?
well first your quote does not say that he graduated as a theologist, just that it was one of the areas he studied in. His study of biology outside of a formal school is pretty well known. What connection (formal or not) to biology did Nietzsche have? Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
well first your quote does not say that he graduated as a theologist,
quote: http://users.hol.gr/~dilos/prehis/prerm2.htm
quote: Discover | Natural History Museum
quote: http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/24422.html I don't see why you appreciate more biological opininion of gratuated theologist from mid 19 century more than opinion of prominent linguist and philosopher from the same period. Edited by MartinV, : No reason given. Edited by MartinV, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 307 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I don't see why you appreciate more biological opininion of gratuated theologist from mid 19 century more than opinion of prominent linguist and philosopher from the same period. (1) Darwin spent his life studying biology and was recognised by his peers as the greatest naturalist of his age. Frierich Nietzsche knew nothing of biology, wrote a lot of crazy stuff, went mad, and spent the latter half of his life staring at the wall while his sister displayed him to tourists. Which of them knew more about biology? (2) We are not taking Darwin's word for anything. The theory of evolution does not rest on his opinion, but on the facts. However, if you are going to invoke the Argument from Authority, here are some scientists with scientific qualifications. Chew on these. "Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin." --- Albanian Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences, Argentina; Australian Academy of Science; Austrian Academy of Sciences; Bangladesh Academy of Sciences; The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium; Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina; Brazilian Academy of Sciences; Bulgarian Academy of Sciences; The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada; Academia Chilena de Ciencias; Chinese Academy of Sciences; Academia Sinica, China, Taiwan; Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences; Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences; Cuban Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic; Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters; Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt; Académie des Sciences, France; Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities; The Academy of Athens, Greece; Hungarian Academy of Sciences; Indian National Science Academy; Indonesian Academy of Sciences; Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran; Royal Irish Academy; Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities; Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy; Science Council of Japan; Kenya National Academy of Sciences; National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic; Latvian Academy of Sciences; Lithuanian Academy of Sciences; Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academia Mexicana de Ciencias; Mongolian Academy of Sciences; Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco; The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences; Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand; Nigerian Academy of Sciences; Pakistan Academy of Sciences; Palestine Academy for Science and Technology; Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru; National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines; Polish Academy of Sciences; Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal; Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Singapore National Academy of Sciences; Slovak Academy of Sciences; Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts; Academy of Science of South Africa; Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain; National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka; Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences; Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies; Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan; Turkish Academy of Sciences; The Uganda National Academy of Sciences; The Royal Society, UK; US National Academy of Sciences; Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences; Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela; Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences; The Caribbean Academy of Sciences; African Academy of Sciences; The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World (TWAS); The Executive Board of the International Council for Science (ICSU). Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
I don't see why you appreciate more biological opininion of gratuated theologist from mid 19 century more than opinion of prominent linguist and philosopher from the same period.
What does a linguist and philosopher know about biology? Darwin spent his life outside of school studying the natural world, what knowledge of biology did Neitzsche have? also: what Dr. Adequate said. Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
"Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision. Commonalities in the structure of the genetic code of all organisms living today, including humans, clearly indicate their common primordial origin."
I don't see problem with this extract. Might be atheist Nietzsche would agree too if he head been alive. You see - the quotation do not mentioned darwinism as explanation of evolution.
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Archer Opteryx Member (Idle past 3620 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
Nietzsche is quoted too often by people that can't be bothered to learn anything about his philosophy.
Nietzsche's criticism in this excerpt is of a brand of nineteenth-century positivism that claimed support in Darwinian theory. He uses the same theory to expose the naivete of it. Nietzsche was not a creo. Sorry. And the spelling of his first name is Friedrich, not 'Fridriech.' Now--back to the twenty-first century. _____ Archer All species are transitional.
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MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
I quoted Friedrich Nietzsche and Nabokov who dismissed darwinism. Maybe these poets - to be ironic - did not underestand complicated dialectical "science" of neodarwinism with it's theories of sexaul selection, neutral drift or even that of neutral draft etc. But G.B.Shaw opinion of darwinism and especially of Natural selection seems to be of the same sort:
quote:
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2285 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 8.3 |
But G.B.Shaw opinion of darwinism and especially of Natural selection seems to be of the same sort:
And what was Shaw's background in biology? Just a monkey in a long line of kings. If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! *not an actual doctor
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Zhimbo Member (Idle past 6034 days) Posts: 571 From: New Hampshire, USA Joined: |
Of course, this quote in no way questions the plausibility of Darwinism, or the evidence. It only wishes to avoid some supposed spiritual ramifications that were not to playwright Shaw's liking.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 307 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I quoted Friedrich Nietzsche and Nabokov who dismissed darwinism. Maybe these poets - to be ironic - did not underestand complicated dialectical "science" of neodarwinism with it's theories of sexaul selection, neutral drift or even that of neutral draft etc. But G.B.Shaw opinion of darwinism and especially of Natural selection seems to be of the same sort. You mean, devoid of factual content? Here's Shaw on smallpox vaccination, by the way:
quote: Yes, that's smallpox, the disease we wiped from the face of the earth by vaccination.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 307 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I don't see problem with this extract. You've become an evolutionist? Hurrah.
Might be atheist Nietzsche would agree too if he head been alive. You see - the quotation do not mentioned darwinism as explanation of evolution. They do not use the obsolote term "darwinism". They do however, say that: "Since its first appearance on Earth, life has taken many forms, all of which continue to evolve, in ways which palaeontology and the modern biological and biochemical sciences are describing and independently confirming with increasing precision." Now, these "ways" would be descent with modification and natural selection, yes?
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MartinV  Suspended Member (Idle past 5851 days) Posts: 502 From: Slovakia, Bratislava Joined: |
Darwinists here explained diversification (adaptive radiation) of mammalian orders during Eocene because of empty niches after K/T period and extinction of dinosaurs due Yucatan catastrophe. They argued that when all emptied niches after dinosaurus extinction were re-occupied by suddenly evolved mammals no other mammalian order arose. I interpreted this fact observed first by Broom and Davison as slow down or end of evolutionary process.
Yet according a research published in Nature 30.4.1998 this radiation occured before K/T period when dinosaurus obviously occupied all niches. I would like to know what interpretation of origin of mammalian orders before K/T period darwinists conceive in such a case. How would they explain that almost all mammalian orders arose in very distant past where no emptied niches were available. After that period no mammalian order arose.
quote:
...and that most mammalian orders were involved in a Cretaceous radiation that predated the Cretaceous/Tertiary extinction of the dinosaurs (Fig. 3). The origin of most mammalian orders seems not to be tied to the filling of niches left vacant by dinosaurs, but is more likely to be related to events in Earth history 12.
Amolecular timescale for vertebrate evolutionSudhir Kumar & S. Blair Hedges http://www.kumarlab.net/pdf_new/KumarHedges98.pdf ------------ This post would fit more on "is evolution of mammals finished" but the thread was closed. So I put it here. Edited by MartinV, : No reason given. Edited by MartinV, : No reason given.
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