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Author Topic:   The philosophy behind The Twelve Steps
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 29 of 108 (400034)
05-09-2007 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
05-07-2007 4:45 PM


Re: Cognitive Behavioral Perspective
quote:
We may be powerless over the effects of the addiction (biochemical stimulus and psycho-emotional patterns)
Of course we have power over those things, Phat.
The "psycho-emotional" is just "what we believe about ourselves".
We can work to change that, and the change can be dramatic. And it is ONLY the idividual that can change themselves. With knowledge and support, of course, but the individual is the only one with the power to change themselves.
I know this from first-hand experience.
The "psycho-emotional" is based upon the "biochemical", and (now this is the important part) vice-versa.
Here is an example.
When I worked at Zingerman's we were required to smile, be cheerful, positive, fun and helpful to our customers. It was part of how "great service" was defined there.
Sometimes, I was tired, or troubled or just not in a good mood when I started a shift. Being cheerful and enthusiastic and fun was pure acting on those days.
I noticed a fuinny thing happening, though. It turns out that your brain doesn't really know the difference between pretending to be cheerful and positive and fun and actually being cheerful and positive and fun. I usually left work in a much better mood than I began it on the days I was down or moody at the start of my shift.
Are there people who have problems with brain chemistry that might benefit from pharmaceutical help? Yes.
Likewise, are there lots of people who go through major depressions and recover without any drugs or therapy? Yes.
I know, because both Zhimbo and I did it.
Both he and I agree that the absolute WORST thing to be told when you are feeling so helpless and impotent and lost is that you really are helpless and impotent and lost.
That is because it is wrong thinking.
It is just as wrong as a normal weight girl who thinks she is fat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 05-07-2007 4:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 30 of 108 (400035)
05-09-2007 8:28 PM


Maybe this is why
Maybe the reason people like the "I am powerless over my addiction" thing is because it ultimately translates to "I am not really responsible if I fuck up."

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by anastasia, posted 05-09-2007 11:01 PM nator has not replied
 Message 34 by JustinC, posted 05-10-2007 5:00 PM nator has not replied
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 05-11-2007 9:55 AM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 33 of 108 (400088)
05-10-2007 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Archer Opteryx
05-10-2007 7:25 AM


Re: Eight Steps
quote:
In time, Dumbo will recognize the feather for what it is.
The problem is, though, that AA doesn't seem to be designed to encourage or even allow people to realize what the feather really is.
So they are doomed to fall if they lose the feather.
Edited by nator, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-10-2007 7:25 AM Archer Opteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-10-2007 5:18 PM nator has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 108 (400212)
05-11-2007 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by anastasia
05-11-2007 12:11 AM


Re: Step 1: Go Dancing
quote:
I would love to see counseling take on a more whole-person approach, maybe have some field trips instead of the daily talks about drugs! Let people know there is more to life than the petty circles they are in, and give them confidence in other areas of life that can take hold and help them recover.
Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy sounds like the ticket.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by anastasia, posted 05-11-2007 12:11 AM anastasia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 05-19-2007 8:33 AM nator has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 57 of 108 (401418)
05-19-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
05-19-2007 8:33 AM


Re: Step 1: Go Dancing
quote:
If it was all as easy as self realization, people would be fixing their own problems.
The thing is, self-realization is the hard part.
Changing one's behavior after enlightenment is relatively easy.
At least, it was in my case.
Another thing is that you don't just have one moment of self-realization. Once a person gains the skill of introspection, it hopefully continues until the end of their days.
It can be summed up thusly:
When I know better, I do better."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 05-19-2007 8:33 AM Phat has not replied

  
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