Is Bestiality Wrong?

I agree with Taz that I don't think a line should be drawn anywhere. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, it's the same line we would apply to the freedom of expression for other human practices. (Not only restricted to sexual practices). That is, generally, if it's not hurting anyone then it's a matter of personal opinion and therefore morally acceptable.I've found questions of "is this morally acceptable?" more easily answered when rephrased to be "does this stop anyone from pursuing their right to life and happiness?"And here, the answer is clear that restricting beastiality would obviously restrict those people's pursuit of their happiness.Basically, if you can't come up with a reasonable reason why it shouldn't be allowed other than "I don't like it". Then it probably should be allowed.Here's one proposed reason: And my answer would be "No, I can't". But, I also don't see how this is any reason why beastiality should be avoided. In fact, we know that human-human sex certainly does cause disease which is threatening to the human population. AIDS and other STDs. This doesn't seem to make human-human sex immoral in any way.If people avoided any action that they couldn't "prove" would never "be a threat to anyone", we'ed never do anything. If we followed this reasoning driving your car would be very immoral. So, since the reasoning why we shouldn't do it... isn't really reasoning at all. Then, by definition, there's no reason why we shouldn't do it. Therefore, it's okay to do, and you'll simply have to learn to live with your personal aversion to the idea.You can be thankful, however, that it's immoral for someone to force beastiality upon you Edited by Stile, : Spellsing. And I changed the title while I was editing anyway.

I agree with your reasoning, but I don't see how it works against bestiality in any possible way.I also don't believe animals are unthinking, unfeeling automatons to abuse for our sport and pleasure. And if someone was doing that to an animal, I'd also think it was immoral. But I don't think bestiality is immoral.Just like human-human sex. If a human abuses another human for their sport and pleasure, I think it's immoral. But I don't think human-human sex is immoral. I agree, yet the point is still irrelevant to bestiality being immoral. Even given your baseless fear, this is no reason for bestiality to be immoral. It is only a reason for bestiality to be taken seriously, and given the careful amount of respect it deserves.Just like human-human sex. It is to be taken seriously and given the careful amount of respect it deserves. Obviously, if no one respected safe-sex practices, than human-human sex would easily introduce many different plagues to the species (it already has, even).But this doesn't mean human-human sex is immoral, just that it should be taken seriously. I'm still waiting for any. You've provided plenty of reasons why we shouldn't take bestiality lightly, and I agree with them all. Yet no reason at all why bestiality should be considered immoral.Bestiality is not "a man raping an animal". I would agree that such a thing is immoral. I'm not saying that "any sex between a human and an animal in any conceivable situation" is moral. I'm saying that human-non-human sex is moral. Of course it needs to be done safely, and respectfully, just as human-human sex needs to be in order to be considered moral. Sorry, I thought that was implied.

Anything that isn't irrational, of course What "wrong" are you talking about? Morally wrong? That's easy, yes it is. Naturally wrong? No, that's practically impossible, we feel what we feel.Of course, that's just your reaction. If we move along to "you continue to be absolutely fucking ashamed, shocked and devastated" year after year while your daughter continues a wonderfully productive life that happens to include loving and having sex with animals... then such a thing would be wrong, yes.But, well, I abide by this principle:"Every being should be given equal respect with regards to their rights to life and pursuit of happiness".If you think that statement is a bad way to live, I understand why you'd disagree. Otherwise, you're just wrong.

Do I know I'd be "fine" with it? No, I must admit that I do not know I'd be okay with it. However, I am optimistic that I would eventually get there.Basically, I'd fall back on the old "time heals all wounds" deal. I have changed my emotional response to things because of rationality before. This gives me reason to believe I'm capable of it for other things.One of the larger experiences I've personally had:My girlfriend is 8-and-a-half years younger than I am. I had a real problem with this at first. Now, over 2 years later, it's hardly more than a passing thought. And the thought is more of a "this age difference exists" thought, no negative tones are involved anymore. Most of the time it doesn't enter my mind. She was mature and life-experienced before I even started seeing her. I knew that. Her maturity level and personality haven't significantly changed over the time I've been with her. I can only conclude that it's just not really that big a deal. Which is what I suspected in the first place.This doesn't mean I condone pedophelia in anyway. But it does mean I don't find age-difference to be much of a factor for finding the person you love.One of the medium experiences:I was a bit of an over-protective older brother to my sister. I didn't like any of the boyfriends she had, and I didn't keep my feelings hidden. She still got married. I knew (even before she was married) that she'd been with this one fellow for quite a while, that she's a smart, careful girl, and that he was a pretty good guy anyway. I still didn't like him. I've hung out with him a bit more since then, and now we're good friends. He hasn't changed, my sister hasn't changed. I can only conclude that I've overcome my initial reaction and become okay with it.One of the smaller experiences:I hate racing stripes on road-vehicles. Originally I couldn't understand how anyone could possibly choose to have such a ridiculously ugly addition placed on their vehicle of choice. I now understand how different people like different things. I'm now perfectly fine with other people placing racing-stripes on their vehicles. However, it doesn't stop me from making fun of them, or continuting to hate it From my own experiences, the steps are something like this:1. New experience is accompanied by a negative reaction.
2. Rationality tells me that the negative reaction is incorrect.
3. Negative reaction persists.
4. I force myself to think about, focus on, and physically experience the situation while attempting to mentally resist the negative reaction.
5. Negative reaction persists.
6. Continually, intentionally repeat step 4.
7. Negative reaction becomes reduced.
8. Continually, intentionally repeat step 4.
9. Negative reaction disappears.Steps 1 to 4 can be in a relatively short time period. And steps 4 to 9 can take a much longer time.I've never had this system fail to balance my mental state when my emotions grate against my rationality.I have every reason to believe I'd be able to eventually adjust to my own child being invloved with bestiality.I do admit that having my child involved with bestiality would be a larger disparity between my emotions and rationality to overcome than I've ever experienced. And this is why I can't "honestly say I'd be okay" with the situation. Yet I do not see any reason why I'd fail, unless I gave up. I don't see how I could give up on my child.

Personally, I welcome the challenge of testing my humanity. And by humanity, I mean my ability to accept others for who they are, and to reserve judgement for those who deserve such. Not that I would wish the social anger someone involved in bestiality would receive upon anyone, especially my own child. But I'm not afraid of putting my best against such a battle. Yes. What if this wasn't there, though? Would we be able to adjust to a good friend being involved with bestiality? An indifferent neighbour? A stranger in a country on the other side of the world? Is it moral for us to wait until the situation is rammed down our throats before we begin an attempt to restructure our thought processes?This is not meant as an insult, simply a thought-exercise I know I have a lot of maturing and learning to go through on many different subjects.But, I find such learning and maturing to be a source of wonder in life. Instead of trying to avoid it, I try to search it out. That is, I like to think about what I'd do in these "tough" situations as much as I can. What I should do, what I would do, and what I can do in order to bring the two as close together as possible. It's amazing what people can become accostomed to (not always a good thing...) But, if we can use this ability-to-adjust for things we know are right, shouldn't we do that? Or, at least, attempt to learn how?

I really like this train of thought.It doesn't practically matter if "I feel good inside" and do the right thing, or "I hate myself when I do this" and still do the right thing. Either way, we're doing the right thing.With bestiality, the rational thing is to not treat it any differently than human-human sex.If we feel "just fine" about this, then there's no problem.If we feel "disgusted" about this, we have two options:1. Deal with the disgust internally, and accept others for who they are.
(no practical difference between this and feeling "just fine", we still treat bestiality the same tolerant way)2. Deal with the disgust externally, and let others deal with our disgust.Personally, I choose option #1 over #2 because I feel that my disgust is my problem, and no one else deserves me being all hateful towards them just because that's my natural reaction. I do feel that some people deserve me being all hateful towards them, but that's when I have a rational reason, such as they're abusing people or animals.Oh, as an aside, I'd just like to point out that I agree with Mr. Jack's last point. I don't really feel that bestiality is morally good. It's simply not morally bad, just as human-human sex isn't really morally good but just not immoral.

And what if the professional's opinion was simply that nothing was going on, nothing was wrong, and your teenager only enjoyed having sex with a Great Dane?Basically, I don't see how your story follows the situation. Lots of things seem "abnormal". Yes, some are from crazy folk. But plenty are not. That's the whole problem, isn't it? Figuring out if bestiality is a part of "crazy folk" or just something some people do differently than others.I admit, though, that I did not word my statement well before. Yes, there are obvious differences. Is there any specific one that makes you worry? I mean, most of the responses to these differences are "yeah, that is different, so what?"What I meant by "treat it the same as human-human sex" was to use these same guidelines:Don't force yourself on another.
If your human partner tells you to stop, or uses body-language to imply they want you to stop, then you should stop.
If your animal partner yelps in pain, or uses body-language to imply they want you to stop, then you should stop.Sex is serious.
Fun isn't the only thing involved in sex. There are STDs and mental consequences to be aware of. You need to be informed and make an intelligent decision about protection before engaging in acts of a sexual nature. This applies to both humans and animals.This is what I meant by "treated equally", treated equally along the lines of levels of respect and concern.Of course there are differences, one's with a human, and the other's with an animal for starters But the question still remains, do you actually have a reason why someone shouldn't have sex with an animal? Other than "I don't personally approve", anyway.I really am asking the question. If you can show that negative results cannot be avoided when having sex with an animal, I'll need to have a great big think about the issue. It's just, well, no one's ever mentioned one to me before.

I agree. I got a little carried away with my terminology. Although, if you read the whole post, I wasn't trying to imply that the two are exactly the same. I just mean they should be treated equally in terms of responibility, safety concerns and respect.The same way sex between humans should not endager other people, and should not cause undue levels of harm to the human you're having sex with.

Let's change "mating purposes" to "sexual pleasure purposes", I think that's what you mean anyway? Unless you're trying to say some people have sex with animals in order to create a child?But still, why not?Just because an animal is lower on the food chain doesn't mean we must eat it.And even if it is an animal we eat, it doesn't mean we must eat them all.If I have 6 cows, what's wrong with slaughtering 5 and engaging the last one in sexual experiences?Or even, what's wrong with engaging in a sexual experience with an animal and still killing it later for food?It doesn't even have to be hypocritical if the frame of mind is "while this animal is here, we may as well have some mutual fun together..."Again, I just see this reason as "having sex with an animal and then eating it later is weird... ew." In which case, I don't see it as much of a reason to take seriously.

Being stubborn is not being rational. I agree completely that you have no problem justifying the weirdness to yourself.But that does not place it on "a rational basis". If it was rational, you could explain it to me, and I would understand. If it was rational, you wouldn't be stubborn about it. If it was rational, the reason would have more substance than "It's weird".Wait, I see where we're getting confused. Yes, this statement is logically correct, and rational, my apologies.The problem lies here: This is irrational. You've made a rational conclusion, but on an irrational basis.I agree that you are convinced that sexual pleasure is only an impetus for procreation. However, that statement is personal. It is based on your own feelings about sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure can be for procreation, it can also be for pleasure. I had sexual pleasure just for pleasure the other day, even.I think we should be clear here:I have absolutely no problem with anastasia saying bestiality is wrong for anastasia.What I have a problem with is anastasia saying bestiality is wrong for anyone else, and her only basis for saying so is "it's wrong for anastasia".If you aren't trying to say that bestiality is wrong for others. Than we really have nothing to discuss. If you do say that... what gives you the right to tell other people how to live their lives where no one else is affected? You know you don't have the right to tell me if I can wear green shoes or blue shoes. So why do you think you have the right to tell me I can't have sex with a cow? In both scenarios, no other people are affected.

It is useful because some people gain pleasure from it, and hurt no one else in the process.But, I'm not even saying it's "useful". I'm saying it's "not wrong". So, if you're actually saying it is wrong, why do you say that?I'm saying I don't have the right to tell other people what to do when they aren't hurting any other person, or any other animal, or any other being.IF you are saying we should tell them not to engage in bestiality, what is your rational reason for saying that?I say "if", because you haven't actually said that you want to restrain others. In fact, your thoughts like this one: ...imply that you don't think we should stop others from being involved in bestiality. If that's what you do think, then I really have no problem with anything you've said so far.Again, the only thing I have a problem with is if you want to stop others from being involved in bestiality. And if you want to do that, what is your rational reason? Why do you think you should be able to stop someone from having sex with a cow, but not have a say if they want to plant tomatoes in their garden?

Um... it's not an opinion. It's a question. Why do you think I'm stating a fact? It starts with an obvious "And what if..." and finishes with a question mark. Yeah, I agreed with that part. And my question remains, unanswered by you:What if the professional's opinion was simply that nothing was going on, nothing was wrong, and your teenager only enjoyed having sex with a Great Dane?Or are you trying to say that it's impossible for a sane, socially productive person to also have a sexual fondness for animals?I'll even change my stance to this, if it pleases you:"As long as the person is clinically sane, bestiality should be considered okay for them to participate in".The same as we don't allow clinically insane people to go around propositioning other humans for sex.Now, again, what's your objection?Because, as I stated before: If you actually have a rational reason why negative results are unavoidable when engaging in bestiality, I'd like to know about them. No one (including you) has been able to identify any, yet. Until then, I'm going to assume that you don't have a rational reason, and you're just making this up because you find it "gross".

I know, and you still haven't answered my question about that discussion:What if the professional's opinion was simply that nothing was going on, nothing was wrong, and your teenager only enjoyed having sex with a Great Dane?Or, do you assume that a clinically sane, socially productive person, who also has a sexual desire towards animals cannot possibly be part of "a real life situation"? Sweeping dismissal of what? You still haven't offered any area that I'm lacking reasons in. All you've said is: And to that I still question:What if the professional's opinion was simply that nothing was going on, nothing was wrong, and your teenager only enjoyed having sex with a Great Dane?If you would like to point out the irrationalities I'm making, I'd like to know about them. It will help me better sturcture my thoughts about the issue.Personally, I find bringing someone into a professional to seek help a bit out of the ordinary. Especially if having sex with a cow is the only motive for thinking they're crazy. Just like with the dirty underwear on the outside. That alone isn't much of a reason to think someone's crazy. Sure, it's a good starter, then you have a chat with them. If they're jumping around from idea to idea, seem incredibly paranoid, cannot focus, and seem very out-of-touch with reality... then yes, bringing them into a professional would be a good idea.But it's also quite possible that they're down-to-earth, very calm, very intelligent, very productive and seem just as sane as everyone else. In this situation, why would we think a professional is even needed? Isn't it simply possible that different people find different things sexually desirable? It would seem by the obvious large variety of sexual fetishes out there... that yes, it's quite possible that perfectly sane people are capable of having differing sexual attractions.If someone seems just as capable as any other socically productive person, what's the reason for questioning their sanity?Or should we bring anyone into a professional and make sure they're sane just because Archer Opterix doesn't approve of what they do in their bedroom?Regardless though, say we do bring them in, and the professional finds that they're completely sane. Do you accept your daughter now? Or do you keep searching for a 2nd, 3rd.. 48th opinion until someone agress with you?If that's your plan, I'm not sure if it's your daughter who needs the professional help.

Yes, I totally agree with this. Sorry, that's not what I meant.I understand that you find bestiality wrong for you. And I've never argued against that. In fact, I've attempted to agree with it over and over again.I'm no longer discussing if it's simply "right" or "wrong". That, really, doesn't mean very much. What I'm discussing is whether or not we should stop others from engaging in bestiality. But, I do not say "it's right". Here, let's try this:We're walking down a road, and inside a house there's a light on. Through the window, we can tell a man is having sex with a cow. They both seem to be enjoying themselves.Me -> "Meh, I'm glad he's having fun, let's continue our walk."Not Me -> Go and bang on his door "Hey, you! Keep up the good work! Sex with cows is awesome!!"See the difference? I'm not advocating it. I'm just not preventing it.You A -> "Meh, I wish he wouldn't do that, that's so wrong, let's continue our walk."You B -> Go and bang on his door "Hey, you! You shouldn't have sex with that cow! It's wrong!!"Now, if you are "A", I have no problem, and I think you are being a very good person as well. It's when you cross that line into "B" where I think you're wrong, and being a bad person.I really have no problems with differing opinions. In fact, I believe that different opionions is exactly why life is so amazing. The only thing I have a problem with is when people try to force their views on others simply to restrict another's freedom.

Yes. No.Definitely not "without question", anyway. Here's my thoughts:You say animals are incapable of giving consent. I agree that they are incapable of giving human-written or human-language consent. However, I think that on a practical level, it's quite simple to learn of an animal's consent.If the animal attempts to get away by any means, then obviously the answer is "no". If the animal continues, and even promotes the actions, then obviously the answer is "yes".I have a cat at home. Sometimes she sits beside me while I watch TV and lets me pet her. She jumps up beside me, nuzzles my leg, and purrs while I pet her.Sometimes she doesn't want to be petted. Sometimes she just runs off. And sometimes she even bites at my fingers. It's pretty obvious to me that at this point my cat no longer wants to be petted.Are you going to tell me the cat isn't giving consent for me to pet her or not? If you want to say "animals cannot consent to (anything, including sex)", you'll have to do more than just say so. In order to convince me, anyway I agree completely.I simply disagree that animals are "unable to consent".Again, bestiality is not "a person raping an animal". I would agree that such an act would be immoral.But if bestiality is simply "a person and an animal sharing un-forced, and individually-promoted sexual activities", then it certainly is not immoral.That being said, I agree that such things are very easily taken advantage of by certain less-than-moral human beings. With the amount of stupid-selfish people in this world, I think that a large amount of "animal raping" would be going on. Probably more than would be acceptable. But, I'd need to see some facts from a study with some numbers before creating a law that would remove this freedom from those who do treat animals with respect. Regardless of such a law being in place, I'd still find bestiality "not immoral".