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Author
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Topic: AL (Artificial Life) and the people who love it
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 16 of 185 (417604)
08-23-2007 12:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
08-23-2007 12:14 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
Look at them goalposts run. What goalposts? God made everything from nothing, that has always been the goalpost, we will never be able to do that, since we've already determined, that matter can neither be created, or destroyed. You act as if I represent creationists or something, I do not. I just believe in God.
That's like saying your supper isn't really supper unless you grew all the food yourself. That is a bad analogy, I won't even debate it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 12:14 PM | | ringo has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 17 of 185 (417607)
08-23-2007 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 14 by Taz
08-23-2007 12:14 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
But these same compounds have been created countless times before in various apparatuses (apparati?). The word "created" is a dangerous word. Technically speaking, they were only put together, or made, not created from scratch like the OP says.
The point of the experiment isn't to disprove god the creator, riverrat. I never said it was.
Anyway, I'm just curious. Are you against genetic engineering of any kind? I don't know enough to have a stance on it. But surely there is a line that should be drawn somewhere. Obviously not if helps us. But I want to be assured that any "created" life, will not destroy us. The movie Frankenstein comes to mind.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 14 by Taz, posted 08-23-2007 12:14 PM | | Taz has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 18 of 185 (417608)
08-23-2007 12:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 12:41 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: God made everything from nothing, that has always been the goalpost, we will never be able to do that... No, that's never been the goalpost. The goalpost is "Can we create life?" Whether or not it has been created before by gods or monsters is completely irrelevant.
quote:
That's like saying your supper isn't really supper unless you grew all the food yourself.
That is a bad analogy, I won't even debate it. If you don't debate it, it stands. 
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 12:41 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | ringo has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 19 of 185 (417615)
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
08-23-2007 12:51 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
No, that's never been the goalpost. The goalpost is "Can we create life?" Whether or not it has been created before by gods or monsters is completely irrelevant. It's not my goalpost, that is the problem. My belief's in God coincide with, where did the whole universe come from to begin with anyway? Not, let's build so called life in a petri dish. I have always thought that was possible. The movie Johnny Five comes to mind. Define "create". Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 12:51 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Message 20 of 185 (417618)
08-23-2007 1:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRtaT writes: Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? I resent that! I don't evolve, and I'm not planning on reproducing. But I'm very much alive, thank you.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 22 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:50 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 21 of 185 (417621)
08-23-2007 1:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 19 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:12 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: My belief's in God coincide with, where did the whole universe come from to begin with anyway? Not, let's build so called life in a petri dish. It's the same thing, really.
Define "create". For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap.
Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? That's a very interesting question. If it doesn't evolve, is it really life? If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 19 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:12 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:53 PM | | ringo has replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Re: You beat me to it!
I don't evolve, and I'm not planning on reproducing. Evolve can be a relative term, so you mean to tell me you haven't changed at all since you were young? Plus planning on reproducing, and be able to, are two separate issues.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 20 by Parasomnium, posted 08-23-2007 1:23 PM | | Parasomnium has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 70 by nator, posted 08-29-2007 8:25 PM | | riVeRraT has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 23 of 185 (417627)
08-23-2007 1:53 PM
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Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
08-23-2007 1:27 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap. Not to me, when it comes to this subject.
If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving. Somehow, I just doubt that. I bet you it will be a mule.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 21 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 1:27 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 24 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 2:10 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 24 of 185 (417629)
08-23-2007 2:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 23 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 1:53 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riVeRraT writes: quote:
For all intents and purposes, create = make. Forget that ex nihilo crap.
Not to me, when it comes to this subject. There you go then, you're setting your own goalposts. You're setting up the requirements so that science can't win.
quote:
If they can make it reproduce perfectly, they can prevent it from evolving.
Somehow, I just doubt that. I bet you it will be a mule. Oh c'mon. Even I know more biology than that.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 1:53 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by riVeRraT, posted 08-24-2007 6:37 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days) Posts: 1909 From: MO Joined: 06-06-2007
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Message 25 of 185 (417636)
08-23-2007 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 12 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 12:00 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
They are only combining existing compounds, and making a biological machine. No. We start from elements. You know. The periodic chart? (And when I say we, I mean we. I work on ribozymes.)
The only thing I am worried about is if their so called "life" is successful, will it run amok? (7 messages later)
Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? Which is it, rat?
Evolve can be a relative term, so you mean to tell me you haven't changed at all since you were young? You know better than that, rat. I am not going to address the definition of evolution here. AL will eat, "breathe", move, reproduce. By even the most rudimentary definition, this constitutes life. And it will evolve (insertions, deletions, point mutations, etc.). After all, nobody's perfect, not even AL.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 12:00 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: 09-26-2002
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Message 26 of 185 (417645)
08-23-2007 3:32 PM
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Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum. When I first saw this topic, just prior to the forum down time, there were a lot of messages that seemed to be mostly just taking cheap pot shots at creationists. I was probably going to close it down. Now the forum is back up, and things seem to have gone at least a little bit towards real discussion. My impression, however, is that the topic's still looking pretty crappy. Anyone care to try to bring the quality level up? NO REPLIES IN THIS TOPIC - SUBJECT TO 24 HOUR SUSPENSION IF YOU DO. If you feel the need to reply, go to the "General discussion..." topic, link below. Adminnemooseus Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added all the comments.
Admin writes: It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon. There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot. Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source
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Parasomnium
Member Posts: 2224 Joined: 07-15-2003
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Perfect? Not!
molbiogirl writes: it will evolve (insertions, deletions, point mutations, etc.). After all, nobody's perfect, not even AL. That's a nice observation. Creationists think life must have been created because they think it is so perfect, and evolutionists think life must have evolved precisely because it isn't.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science." - Charles Darwin.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by molbiogirl, posted 08-23-2007 3:08 PM | | molbiogirl has not replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3985 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.2
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Schoolbus?
molbiogirl & rat writes: The only thing I am worried about is if their so called "life" is successful, will it run amok? (7 messages later)
Tell me something, if this life made in a petri dish, never reproduces, or evolves, is it life? Which is it, rat? Qui est mas macho?
Real things always push back.-William James
Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!---------------------------------------
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 25 by molbiogirl, posted 08-23-2007 3:08 PM | | molbiogirl has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 37 by molbiogirl, posted 08-24-2007 11:05 PM | | Omnivorous has not replied |
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anastasia
Member (Idle past 5974 days) Posts: 1857 From: Bucks County, PA Joined: 11-05-2006
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Message 29 of 185 (417790)
08-24-2007 4:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 16 by riVeRraT
08-23-2007 12:41 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
riverrat writes: God made everything from nothing, that has always been the goalpost, The Bible deosn't do such a good job at clarifying for us whether God made everything from nothing, or just the first thing from nothing. If God produced one complete building block kit from thin air, and then used it to make other things, wouldn't everything technically have originated from nothing? It's not a good analogy because kits can't evolve or reproduce, but if you get the gist you can see the ex nihilo stuff is indeed irrelevent.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 16 by riVeRraT, posted 08-23-2007 12:41 PM | | riVeRraT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 08-24-2007 7:13 PM | | anastasia has not replied |
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: 05-09-2004
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Message 30 of 185 (417807)
08-24-2007 6:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
08-23-2007 2:10 PM
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Re: You beat me to it!
There you go then, you're setting your own goalposts. You're setting up the requirements so that science can't win. Oh really. I guess I finally did something right then.
Oh c'mon. Even I know more biology than that. You act like we have so much control over life as it is. I am not sure what you mean, besides, I am only speculating.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 24 by ringo, posted 08-23-2007 2:10 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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