The First Questions In The Bible

Jar, your quite off the topic regardless, but for the sake of debate... Baseless comment.
I see where Adam and Eve knew they were naked and I'm not disputing whether or not they were.
Are you inferring the ability to identify you are not wearing clothes somehow proves the capacity to tell what is good from what is evil on a consistent basis?
When I am faced with confusion on what is good and evil being naked does not help me differentiate. Contrary, it makes me more confused sometimes.
I'm naked in the shower every morning.
Does God consider this sin?
Now your asserting that it is evil to be naked.
Please show me a verse any where in the Bible where it is stated that it is evil to be naked.
Keep in mind we were created in the image of God and we were created naked.
Please show me the verse that supports the assertion Adam and Eve immediately obtained the capacity to differentiate good and evil consistently. I agree the Garden is just a small part of the world, and Adam is it's gardener.
That is not a point of debate here. It may or may not have been Elohim's dwelling place...that is not addressed here.
Please provide a verse where God leaves the Garden or refrain from making non-bible based assumptions. You keep saying that. Yet you run away from the fact that Adam and Eve nor their children could differeniate between good and evil consistently. They had just begun learning the difference. They're children killing one another eight verses after they were restricted from the Garden seems to contradict your claim.
Please show anywhere Adam, Eve, Cain, or Abel knew whether their actions were wrong.Debate in good faith. Address the issue or drop your claims about having the capacity to differentiate good from evil, nakedness being evil or helping differentiate good from evil, or God leaving the garden.I still love you man.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

From the text, there is no basis to consider they were immortal upon creation. There is basis to consider they could make a choice that led to death. The choice they made led to a murder eight verses after they were restricted from the Garden.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

I am saying that is what the story says. The story says they were ashamed.The ability to know good from evil does not mean that someone will choose good over evil. The ability to know good from evil is simply that, it says nothing about what actions people take but rather that they show some moral sense, the ability to feel ashamed, the ability to feel remorse.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Shooting oneself in the foot while trying to save a toe.Obviously an attempt to take 'you shall surely die' literally. Maybe God is not a liar in the story because the Tree of Life was still available to Adam and Eve before they ate of the Tree of Knowledge, so they have the possibility of immortality versus the assurance of death if they were banished?Edited by anastasia, : No reason given.

We agree on these ideas. These verses somehow assert your position that the knowledge of good and evil causes someone to show moral sense and remorse?
Contrary it seems. According to your logic, "Cain supposedly inherited moral sense", yet he did not perceive killing his own brother as immoral. Nor was he remorseful for the actual murder.What does Adam and Eve being ashamed of their private bits, making aprons to protect their bits from shrubbery, and wanting privacy because they're naked have to do with the ability to know good from evil. I prefer clothing; how does that relate to my ability to know good from evil? Please show me any where in the Bible where it declares the ability to know good from evil is established by the desire for privacy or making aprons. I have not seen this in Scripture.You suggest Cain had the ability to know good from evil and showed moral sense by killing his brother. Unless the commandment Moses was given in Exodus 20:13 declaring "You shall not murder" is a misprint you are 180 degrees away from what the Bible actually says.Actually read Genesis 4:13. Cain tells Elohim his punishment is to harsh of a sentence for him to handle. You consider that showing remorse? If anything Cain felt shame because he was convicted and punished by God, not because he had the ability to know good from evil. That would be a speculation that's within the parameters of the story.Please provide the verse that tells of Adam, Eve, Cain or Abel having remorse. Sure, Adam & Eve wanted some privacy but they never showed remorse. Cain felt no remorse for the murder he committed. Cain felt burden from his punishment according to Genesis 4:13. Genesis 4:14 simply reinforces what Jesus said. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.I might not be a "Christian", but I am literate.
Again, I am sorry if I offend you, I am not religion savvy at all.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

No, you're really not.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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I see where it says "their eyes were opened" immediately after they ate the fruit. I'm not debating they ate it. What I would like to know is how you connect being perceived naked to being good...or evil for that matter? If there is a declaration whether it is good or bad to be naked in your Bible by all means quote the verses. Otherwise, it's off topic. Someone actually disagrees that the ability to differentiate things (ex. "good from evil") is honed by a process of experience?Edited by Bailey, : punct.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

I love you Ringo.
What does any of this have to do with any of the first questions ever asked in the Bible, if it's significant that the serpent was allowed to ask the first question, whether or not we were meant to question God from the very first day, or whether the entire scenario meant to happen?Edited by Bailey, : aditional comment

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

I have not suggested any such connection."Their eyes were opened" means they learned something. What they learned was the difference between good and evil. There is no "process of experience" in the Adam and Eve story. If there was one, you'd have been able to quote the verses by now.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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We've been discussing "whether or not we were meant to question God from the very first day" this whole time. God gave us free will because He wanted us to use it. He gave Adam and Eve the oppurtunity to question His word and compare it to the word of the snake. He said Himself that by using their free will they became more like Him.So, yes, we were meant to question God from the very first day.

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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You're missing the point of debate. I'll try to go slow. If you can't come up with a value we will agree to disagree.
Here is an example...God saw that the light was good, God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good, the land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good....Anything like this will work probably. Now let's put your bible math into perspective...??? = what"Their eyes were opened" or "they were naked" + ??? = Adam and Eve learned something
or...
"Their eyes were opened" or "they were naked" + ??? = the difference between good and evilAdam and Eve learned something = the difference between good and evil...these two statements are equivalentWhat is the value of the ???? You cannot learn with out this value (unless you're magic).Yet, I you asked how being perceived naked was connected to being good...or evil for that matter?
And you saidNow, if there is no suggested connection between a point of relativity to nakedness being good or evil relating to being perceived naked or their eyes being opened...then why would you claim Adam and Eve learned something?
They couldn't have learned anything without a basis for what was good or evil.
In other words, what is your value for a basis of what was good or evil.
If there is a declaration whether to be naked, or have your "eyes opened" is good or bad in your Bible by all means quote the verses. Otherwise, it's off topic.??? = basis for good and evil"Their eyes were opened" or "they were naked" + basis for good and evil = Adam and Eve learned something
or...
"Their eyes were opened" or "they were naked" + basis for good and evil = the difference between good and evilI'm sorry your magical equation does not align with logic or Scripture.
You seem to be in quite a pickle. I never stated there was a "process of experience" in the Adam and Eve story. I simply stated the obvious way Adam, Eve, or anyone with the task of telling what is good from evil would acheive the difference between the two as oppsed to your magical formula...the ability to differentiate good and evil is not magical, but rather honed through experiences. Yes it is true that through God all things were made; without God nothing was made that has been made...I could have told you that. Edited by Bailey, : punct.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary

I'm sorry for the previous long post. And you said You are making a huge assumption something was differentiated between good and evil after the fruit of knowledge incident and making a huge assumption that Adam or Eve actually learned anything.
This just isn't supported from the text of Genesis.
When you assume you make an ass of u and me.

I'm sorry, but once again you are simply misrepresenting what I have said and my position.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There's nothing in the story about what is good or evil. There is no "basis" for what is good or evil mentioned in the story. We're talking about Adam and Eve here. According to the story, it certainly was magical for them. I'm just looking at exactly what the story says: They ate the fruit. Their eyes were opened. Then why don't you show some scripture?

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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So far, so good. That’s exactly my point. Adam and Eve couldn’t, and didn’t, learn of good or evil. You can’t distinguish what’s good from what’s evil without some point of relativity for a basis. And has you said, there is no "basis" for what is good or evil mentioned in the story. We can’t assume they learned anything about good or evil anymore than we can assume they knew whether or not they were talking to a God or whether or not they knew snakes could talk. If you don't believe in talking devil serpents, why would you believe in "magical fruit". It's nonsense. That's the standard dogma, but does it make sense. Apparently it is exactly what it’s named . the knowledge of good and evil. Not to be mistaken with the magical fruit from the Tree of the Difference Between the Knowledge of Good and the Knowledge of Evil.
I don’t care what a tree is named. As far as the text delivers it may as well have been named the Tree of the Knowledge of Realization for the Need of Clothing to Protect Your Private Bits, or the Tree of the Knowledge of Nudity Awareness. Now we’re getting somewhere. They lost any shot at “magic” they might or might not have had when they did the opposite of what there their supposed magician God asked of them. These people were in no way magicians before of after the “fruit of knowledge” incident from the text of the Book. No where does this story say that anyone was magic. If knowledge wasn’t “magically” embedded in their skulls they would have to obtain it in some other fashion. Through a basis of relativity.
Walk on rocks barefoot hurt feet . walk on rocks barefoot bad
Walk on rocks with beaver hide slippers or foliage based feet apparel not hurt so much .
Beaver hide slippers or foliage based feet apparel good.
Again, perhaps through life experiences not a magic fruit. Yes . Their eyes were opened and they perceived things they hadn’t before. Awareness of nudity, desire for privacy perhaps. That is speculation within the parameters of the story. We don’t need to make assumptions here. This is Bible study. I'm going by what the Bible says. I'm not interested in a piece of magical fruit. I'm only interested in what information is given for a basis of what could be considered good and what could be considered evil. Like you’ve stated, there is no basis for whether being naked is good or evil so they couldn’t, and didn’t, learn of the difference between goodness and malevolency. OK. Keep in mind, these are all the scriptures that may potentially provide a basis for the awareness of nudity and desire for privacy to be bad or good. To keep them pertinent they have all been taken from Genesis. The only potentially relevant mention of good and bad I see are in the creation portion of Genesis, and it was Elohim’s wisdom of good. Nope, nothing about nudity or hiding being good or bad here. The rest of these Scriptures are after “the magic fruit” incident and are mute to the point of debate, but nonetheless . Nothing about hiding or the concept of the awareness of nudity being good or bad there either. Or magicians for that matter. Dogma . what would we do with out it? It is safe to conclude they learned the difference between relative “goodness” and “evilness” through the cause and effect of life experiences like everybody else in the world instead of your “magical fruit”.

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Mercy Trumps Judgement,
Love Weary