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Author Topic:   Talk about Coffee?
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 2 of 87 (420658)
09-08-2007 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-08-2007 10:24 PM


I've been thinking that a pod coffeemaker is just the thing for the volume of coffee my wife and I drink - not all that much at one time - but I don't know anything about them.
I don't want to get locked into proprietary pods, but other than that, are there any particular models you use?

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 Message 1 by jar, posted 09-08-2007 10:24 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 11 of 87 (420764)
09-09-2007 1:56 PM


The best coffee I ever had was this cappuccino in a big bowl-mug that came out of this machine in a youth hostel in Venice. The guy wasn't even a barrista, I don't think; just the guy who would push the lever on the machine and fill the mug. I don't even think it was a real espresso machine.
I don't know how it worked or what the beans were, and I can't imagine that the cafeteria at a youth hostel was springing for gourmet beans, but that was, hands-down, by far, the best mug of coffee I've ever, ever had.

Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 19 of 87 (420793)
09-09-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:19 PM


Re: on decaf
I often find people arguing over which taste like what but to me they all taste like... coffee.
All wines taste like wine, too. The only thing that's "wrong" with you is that you aren't practiced in really thinking about the way things taste.
It's just a free-association trick, basically. That's what the wine guys are doing when they talk about "a floral nose (smell), with an oakey yet fruity body." Or "chocolatey overtones." The wine doesn't have any chocolate or flowers or peaches in it. It's just what the guy was reminded of.
Develop your sense of taste. Go to a wine tasting. Host your own coffee tasting. Scraf is a professional taster of things; I'm sure she has some great tips on how to develop the "resolution" of your sense of taste. (Similar situation - lock picking requires an acute sense of touch, in order to feel the slight sensation of pins locking in their shear plane. Lock pickers train their sense of touch by running their fingertips over coarse sandpaper and concentrating on feeling each grain. Then they move to finer sandpaper.)
And, you know, stop smoking, if you do. The things that does to your tastebuds/olfactory sense... well, it would be like if you stopped being able to see color or hear music. You're literally burning them right off your tongue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:19 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Taz, posted 09-09-2007 3:37 PM crashfrog has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 22 of 87 (420799)
09-09-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
09-09-2007 3:32 PM


Re: Acidity;
Have any of you ever heard of "Swedish coffee"? It's a technique where a raw egg is dropped into the basket on top of the grounds (or something like that). It's supposed to be really smooth, I suspect because compounds in the egg neutralize some of the acidity or bind to some of the bitter coffee oils or something.
I used to see it a lot at the Minnesota State Fair. Anybody else ever heard of this?

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 Message 20 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:32 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:55 PM crashfrog has replied
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 87 (420804)
09-09-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Taz
09-09-2007 3:37 PM


On taste.
I'd like to keep my lungs healthy so I can continue to play Lisa Simpson's instrument.
Good, good! You're a musician! Think about taste like you'd think about the sound of a note. I'm sure you can play an adequate B flat, in tune and stuff, but consider the difference between your B flat and Miles Davis's.
Everything my wife cooks seem to taste just fine even though she (and others) occasionally would say this is too salty or that is too sour or whatnot.
See, there's your problem. You've got only two tastes - "bad" and "fine."
You need to learn to think about flavor in terms of more than whether or not it tastes bad to you, or whether or not you can eat it. Don't just wonder if something tastes "good" - ask yourself, what does it taste like? Where have you tasted it before? What were you doing the last time you tasted something like this?
You need to explore taste. Try to remember how things taste. I mean, right now, when you're not eating something. Try to remember the last really special meal you had and focus on the taste of the food.
People get into this habit of food being ancillary to whatever they're doing, where even a meal is just using the body's need for food in order to watch TV, or get some work done, or hang out with friends. And that's fine, but sometimes a meal should be about eating, too.
But as I understand it, much of what's "good" is completely subjective.
It's not about how good things taste. It's about what things taste like. Wine tastings aren't a bunch of people sitting around and saying "mm, that's good. Oh, that's bad." That's not how it works at all.
How does one of these taste events work anyway?
You show up. Maybe it's free, maybe you pay a little fee. Let's say this is a wine tasting. Somebody who knows something about wines has picked out some bottles for the tasting.
He or she goes around, and pours you a little bit into your glass. They tell you something about the wine - what kind of wine it is, where it was grown, how old it is. Maybe they even explain some wine terms, if this is a "beginner" kind of event.
The discerning taster swirls the wine in the glass for a little bit, to get a sense of its color and to aromatize some of the volatile compounds that give wine its flavor. They inhale the aroma of the wine (the "nose"). This primes your olfactory senses. They take a slurping sip to get both wine and air into their mouths, and then they let the wine run over the entire surface of their tongue (because different areas of the tongue detect different flavors.)
Then they describe the different tastes in the wine, comparing them to other tastes and smells. Chocolate, maybe, or the smells of oak or applewood, or the tastes of fruit. They consider how sour the wine tastes, to get a sense of its acidity. As they swallow the wine, alcohol in the wine begins to vaporize off the tongue, and the intensity of that sensation is called "dryness".
You don't have to make a big show of doing all that at a wine tasting; you just have to understand that wines are meant to be perceived in those five different ways - color, nose, flavor, acidity, and dryness. People sometimes bring a little notebook to write down their impressions and they organize it by label, so that when they go to buy some wines, they have an idea of what they'll enjoy. Or you can just try and remember.
You can do the same thing with coffee.
What does it look like? Does it have that smokey dark brown color? Or is it pale or black, like sludge? Does it have that little chestnut-colored ring of foam (called crema) around the edge, or was it just slopped into your cup lukewarm from a carafe that's been on the heater all day long?
What does it smell like? Does it smell roasted, caramelized, kind of like a roast turkey? Or does it smell sharp and bitter? Does it smell full-bodied, like there's too much going on to describe? Or does it just have the flat "bitter" smell?
What does it taste like? Is it complex and deep, like there's a lot going on? Or does it just taste like one thing, like soup without enough salt? Is it drab and boring? Is it too bitter or sour? Or is it like... well, I dunno. (I sat here for 10 minutes trying to think of how to describe how good coffee tastes, but I've got nothing.)
How do people really know what's the best without reading each other's minds?
It's a lot less about "the best" than you think. It's more about understanding what things taste like, not just whether they taste "better" than another thing. Leave the ranking for the wine judges. Just learn to taste the things that you're eating and drinking - not in terms of goodness, but in terms of the way they taste. You'll see what your wife is talking about when she says something is too salty or sour.
It's the difference between Miles Davis blowing on a saxophone and me doing it. Sure, there's a portion that you just can't put into words. The "essence." But some of it, you can consciously identify and describe. Doing so, talking about it with people (like your wife or your friends or the people at wine tastings) helps you identify the different tastes. Doing it with other people can give you the vocabulary you need to put word to flavor, and to remember the way things taste.

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Replies to this message:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 26 of 87 (420805)
09-09-2007 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
09-09-2007 3:55 PM


Re: Caffe mit salmonella
The neat part is that the raw egg causes the coffee to foam and then as brewing continues the egg, shell and grounds mat together and settle to the bottom. Originally it was a way to get the coffee grounds which are light and will float to settle out.
What kind of brewing setup is this done in? I've seen it done with the regular paper-filter kind of coffeemaker. The way you describe it, it sounds like something else, something where the grounds are floating around in the water, like a french press.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 09-09-2007 3:55 PM jar has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 40 of 87 (420839)
09-09-2007 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by nator
09-09-2007 5:09 PM


Re: On taste.
except that Miles Davis plays the trumpet, not the saxophone.
Haha! Well, that's why I'm a foodie who listens to techno.

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 42 of 87 (420842)
09-09-2007 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Jaderis
09-09-2007 5:35 PM


Re: on decaf
Where you are wrong, however, is that the flavors and scents present in wines are not just there through free association. There are dozens of different kinds of grapes and they all have distinctive characteristics which can taste similar to other things such as fruits, grass, clover, etc.
That is, of course, true. The flavors they're detecting are real, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
But a lot of beginning tasters feel like they're doing it "wrong", if they don't use "the right words", and I was just trying to get the point across that, while wine tasters have sort of hit on a certain vocabulary to describe wine flavors, it's really just a matter of connecting the flavors to other things that you've tasted.
(another cool way to determine the alcohol content is to tip the glass and look at how big the meniscus is - the bigger the rim, the more alcohol it has).
Back in the day, I was told this was called "legs."

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 50 of 87 (421266)
09-11-2007 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
09-08-2007 11:00 PM


If you want to try single serve without investing much, Senseo is running a Share Senseo promotion where you can get them to send you a Senseo machine for just shipping.
Just wanted to let you know that I filled out the survey and it looks like I qualified or whatever; they're shipping me out one of their Senseo machines.
So, thanks for the tip! My wife and i are pretty excited. She was pretty much fed up with our drip coffeemaker.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by jar, posted 09-08-2007 11:00 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 09-11-2007 8:22 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 54 of 87 (422141)
09-16-2007 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by jar
09-11-2007 8:22 PM


Re: Senseo Coffee
Are the cappuccino pods worth drinking? I picked a pack up on sale today at Target, so I guess I'll find out when the pod machine arrives (sometime next week I guess.)
I'm so excited! Even if the coffee they send is crap.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 09-11-2007 8:22 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 56 by jar, posted 09-24-2007 2:22 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 57 of 87 (423855)
09-24-2007 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by jar
09-24-2007 2:22 PM


Re: Senseo Coffee
It did arrive. My thoughts, after a week:
1) I was initially disappointed by the fact that it takes two pods to brew a whole mug's worth, but I've had great success packing my own fake pods just using coffee filter paper, so I don't feel like I'm double-dipping from my pod stash just to fill a mug.
2) I noticed nothing particularly objectionable about the coffee pods they sent with the machine, regular medium roast, but I drink my coffee with cream so maybe I'm just obliterating coffee flavor. Even the cappuccino pods weren't half bad.
3) It's convenient as hell. My old coffeemaker has been relegated to the closet. I just picked up some tea pods, guess I'll give those a try.
4) I was up in Minneapolis this weekend, at IKEA, and so I picked up a set of "half-size" coffee cups, so that when I run cappuccino pods I don't feel gypped by only filling half of my mug.
It's been a good time, my wife and I drink more coffee and less soda now, as a result. So that's a plus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by jar, posted 09-24-2007 2:22 PM jar has replied

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 61 of 87 (424249)
09-26-2007 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by FliesOnly
09-26-2007 6:59 AM


Re: on pods
So I received my Senseo Pod machine yesterday and my wife appears less than enthusiastic. To be honest, I have yet to use the thing, but my wife loves her French Press and dislikes the idea of having to buy pods. Do you guys "pack" your own pods or is it best to just buy them already packed.
If you can't get your wife onboard with the Senso thing, why not set the machine up somewhere besides the kitchen? I was reading about people who leave the machine by their computer for when they need a quick cuppa, or people who plug it in out in the garage for a fix during early-morning tinkering, etc.
If your wife wants to stick with the french press and doesn't want to buy pods all the time, why not have the machine be an auxiliary coffeemaker somewhere? (Keep a jug of water nearby if there's no faucet handy, the little Senseo tank runs out too fast.)

This message is a reply to:
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 62 of 87 (658659)
04-07-2012 9:16 PM


Coffee Advice
Right, so back in the day Jar turned me on to the Senseo pod coffeemaker, and it's been great. Loved it. Except one problem - Douwe Egberts basically lost the Pod Coffee Wars, Senseo-compatible pods are getting harder to find, and they're probably going to disappear altogether now that the Senseo is no longer sold in the US.
So we're thinking it's about time to move to a K-cup compatible machine - never seem to have any trouble finding K-cups in the local grocery stores, the wife likes that they come in tea flavors as well, and I've even seen chai and hot chocolate pods.
Anybody have more recent experience with Keurig machines? We're looking at the "B40". I'm hoping, once again, that Jar can steer me right. Motherfucker knows his coffee, no doubt. In years past, you mentioned that Keurig had a new needle design that they might adopt across all product lines. Did they wind up doing that?

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 04-07-2012 9:45 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 77 of 87 (658759)
04-09-2012 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
04-07-2012 9:45 PM


Re: Coffee Advice
Actually, the patent on the Keurig K-Cup expired so Keurig has introduced a new line of machines that don't use the old K-Cup format.
That makes me think that getting into an "old-style" K-cup brewer is the way to go, then, since avoiding lock-in was one of the reasons I got into the Senseo in the first place.
pod format is still the way to go. Way more variety, selection and prices.
I don't doubt it online, but coffee is kind of an "impulse" buy for us and online doesn't fit in well with that - the prices make sense if you're willing to buy volume but we'd rather buy a package at a time at the store. And I'm not seeing pods in stores anymore - just K-cups.
Also the Senseo machine never really gave us good results with packing our own pods, or using a reusable pod-sized filter basket - either we'd grind too coarsely and pack too loosely and the coffee would be tinted water, or we'd grind too finely and pack too tightly and water would shoot out of the brewhead. The "lock" on the K-cup machines seems tighter, like it's under higher pressure, and I'm hoping that gives better results with reusable filter baskets.
Also I can get a Keurig B40 with credit card points, so it's free-ish, which is an easy sell domestically, if you know what I mean.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 04-07-2012 9:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 04-09-2012 12:01 PM crashfrog has not replied
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