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Author Topic:   What's the problem with teaching ID?
jar
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Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 91 of 337 (424488)
09-27-2007 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:08 AM


The Bible?
There is ONE version of Christianity. It's contained in the Bible.

Are you as ignorant of Christianity as you are of science?

The is no such thing as "The Bible". There are several different Canons with several different lists of what books are in, what ore not. The smallest Canon has only 5 books while the largest Canon has over 80.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:08 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:20 AM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 92 of 337 (424490)
09-27-2007 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:12 AM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
No, my friend, that is where you are wrong. Christianity is NOT a religion is a personal relationship with our Creator, and his Son Jesus Christ. But, as long as you are on the "religion in disguise" thing. I know you would have to agree that Atheism is a religion in itself, right? And so is Budhism, Hinduism, etc. These are all taught in schools. Why do you suppose that is?

LOL, too funny.

First you say there is such a thing as "THE Bible", now you say Christianity is not a religion.

Then you think I would agree that atheism is a religion?

Get serious.

Atheism is NOT taught in school that I know of. Buddhism, Hinduism may be taught in either social studies or religious studies, and I would have no problem teach Christianity there either.

But non of that has anything to do with ID or teaching ID.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:12 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:22 AM jar has not yet responded

  
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 93 of 337 (424491)
09-27-2007 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by jar
09-27-2007 9:14 AM


Re: The Bible?
That's silly. Me, ignorant of Christianity? I have been studying the Bible for over 20 years. But then again, it is futile for me to expect that someone that hasn't experienced the love and grace that Jesus has to offer to understand what I'm talking about. I understand that there are large volumes of literature out there that contain writings from biblical times. I know this to be true. But the Bible is the only one inspired BY GOD HIMSELF. If there was some other writing that God wanted to be in the Bible, it would have been. He doesn't make mistakes. But then again, you wouldn't understand. You should try attending a Bible teaching church. Maybe God has something to say to your heart. There is a need in all of us to feel loved, and to know that we have a purpose in this world.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:14 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by nator, posted 09-27-2007 9:27 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded
 Message 96 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:30 AM DivineBeginning has responded

    
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 94 of 337 (424492)
09-27-2007 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by jar
09-27-2007 9:19 AM


Re: I have no problem with teaching ID in a school but...
This is where YOU are tremendously ignorant. Just because there is a Bible, doesn't mean it is religion. The Bible is God's way of communicating with us. On how to go about our lives. Living according to the scriptures. But I can't expect you to understand this if you haven't experienced God's forgiveness and grace in your life.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:19 AM jar has not yet responded

    
nator
Member (Idle past 29 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 95 of 337 (424495)
09-27-2007 9:27 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:20 AM


Re: The Bible?
So, which Bible is the real Bible?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:20 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 96 of 337 (424496)
09-27-2007 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:20 AM


Re: The Bible?
If there was some other writing that God wanted to be in the Bible, it would have been. He doesn't make mistakes.

Then why do some Canon (you do know that the only thing that makes something a Bible is Canon don't you? ) contain only the first 5 books of the Bible and other Canon contain over 80 books? Couldn't God make up her mind?

The rest of your Yada yada is irrelevant and unimportant.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:20 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:34 AM jar has responded

  
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 97 of 337 (424498)
09-27-2007 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
09-27-2007 9:30 AM


Re: The Bible?
I really think you should attend a church service or too. A real, bible teaching, God fearing church. Not one that gets in your face, a good church. You seem pretty confident in your beliefs, so you shouldn't be too challenged. Right? You might find it interesting. In the meantime, I am going to pray for you. I will pray that God will open your heart to his wonderful grace and love he is offering. I have to go to work now. Take care my friend.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:41 AM DivineBeginning has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 98 of 337 (424499)
09-27-2007 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:34 AM


Re: The Bible?
But you still fail to address the fact that there is no such thing as "The Bible" and instead retreat into some carny spiel. What makes you think I have not attended many such churches of many different flavors of the Christian religion?

What bothers me about such places was that the Pastors and Ministers all were so totally ignorant of the faith they were selling.

But worry not, I doubt that you can teach me anything about GOD.

And the topic is still "What's the problem with teaching ID?"

I have said that it should be taught as an example of piss poor science, perversion of the scientific method and terrible theology.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:34 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:47 AM jar has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17580
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 99 of 337 (424502)
09-27-2007 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 8:52 AM


Back to the Topic of Teaching ID
Hi DB,

While your apparent unawareness that not all Christian sects use the same Bible is surprising and worth noting, I can't really see the tie-in to ID. I think it would be more relevant to focus on your other statements. Schraf said this in Message 85:

Schraf in Message 85 writes:

So, are you saying that we should teach Christianity instead of science in science classrooms?

To which you replied in Message 86:

DivineBeginning in Message 86 writes:

No, both. What's wrong with that. The students deserve to know ALL beliefs about their existence don't they. Besides aren't we supposed to be teaching tolerance and diversity? Shouldn't Christianity fit in there somewhere?

I think the position of most here who are arguing on the side of science would be that science class is not a course about "ALL beliefs about their existence," and that it isn't the proper venue for "teaching tolerance and diversity," nor for teaching about Christianity.

Did you really mean to argue for including these things in science class?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 8:52 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:48 AM Percy has responded

    
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 100 of 337 (424503)
09-27-2007 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
09-27-2007 9:41 AM


Re: The Bible?
You need God in your life. You have been to churches that have spoiled your view of Jesus. That is a tragedy. But don't let it get you down. Try some more. If you are as confident as you seem, it shouldn't matter right? I will pray that you will find a good one. By the way, there is a thing called the Holy Bible. It is the number one best seller in all of history. I'm sure you've heard of it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:41 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:54 AM DivineBeginning has responded

    
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 101 of 337 (424505)
09-27-2007 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Percy
09-27-2007 9:46 AM


Re: Back to the Topic of Teaching ID
I don't know how you could get around teaching ID in science class but ignoring the faith it stems from.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Percy, posted 09-27-2007 9:46 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Percy, posted 09-27-2007 10:33 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(2)
Message 102 of 337 (424507)
09-27-2007 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:47 AM


Re: The Bible?
By the way, there is a thing called the Holy Bible.

There is the Bible(s) accepted under the Western Canon.

But they are not the only Christian Bibles. As I have already explained to you, what makes something a Bible is if it contains those books accepted by a given Canon.

That is the only thing that makes something a Bible. Does it contain those books selected under a given Canon?

But there is not one Canon, but many, the smallest containing only 5 books, the largest containing over 80.

The rest of you spiel is irrelevant and unimportant.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:47 AM DivineBeginning has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:57 AM jar has responded

  
DivineBeginning
Member (Idle past 3887 days)
Posts: 100
Joined: 11-16-2006


Message 103 of 337 (424510)
09-27-2007 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by jar
09-27-2007 9:54 AM


Re: The Bible?
No, what makes the Holy Bible is what is God Breathed, and God inspired. The entire Bible (the one called "Holy Bible") is God breathed. Many men, from all over that part of the world, from different cultures, and different languages and different backgrounds wrote this book made of many little books. There may be other "bibles", but there is only one that is God inspired.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 9:54 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 09-27-2007 10:03 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30708
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 104 of 337 (424511)
09-27-2007 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:57 AM


Re: The Bible?
I'm sorry but other than your assertion, do you have anything to support that?

You will need some pretty strong support since the evidence clearly shows what you are claiming to be false.

But the issue is "What's the problem with teaching ID?"

I have stated that I think ID should be taught, if for no other reason to show the implications of such a failed, deadend, worthless method.

As I have pointed out before, when we actually look at the world around us, what we see are examples of just barely good enough to squeak by design, Inept Design, Ignorant Design, Inefficient Design, everything BUT Intelligent Design.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:57 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 17580
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 105 of 337 (424516)
09-27-2007 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by DivineBeginning
09-27-2007 9:48 AM


Re: Back to the Topic of Teaching ID
DivineBeginning writes:

I don't know how you could get around teaching ID in science class but ignoring the faith it stems from.

Well, yeah, precisely, the courts feel the same way.

Should I conclude from this that you believe ID should not be taught in science class? Or are you saying that it should, along with Christianity, tolerance, diversity and all beliefs about existence, but that you understand the courts would frown on this?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by DivineBeginning, posted 09-27-2007 9:48 AM DivineBeginning has not yet responded

    
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