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Author Topic:   How to make sand.
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 3 of 121 (428910)
10-18-2007 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
10-17-2007 6:09 PM


Heads Stuck in the Sand
Sometimes the simplest questions are the best.
Maybe God made sand during the creation week so that YECers had a place to firmly stick their heads...
Sorry couldn't resist.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 7 of 121 (429285)
10-19-2007 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by The Matt
10-18-2007 2:49 PM


Flood Sand
The Matt writes:
Just to be pedantic, this isn't the only means to make sand.
This is more interesting question than I previously thought.
Here is a really nice article on sand that was originally published in Scientific American by Walter Mack and Elizabeth Leistikow
http://www.aplmicro.com/sands.pdf
Reference Article writes:
When we pick up a handful of sand from the beach and watch it sift through our fingers, we are seeing the product of millions of years of geologic history
YECers never mention what wonderful aspect of the world wide flood was suppose to create huge (really huge) deposits of sand. Of all the mechanisms involved in the generation of sand a flood would only supply mechanical action as in high velocity stream flows - there were no freeze/thaw cycles.
However the flood is a 40 day event (or a year if you like). The events from such a flood would be sporadic and not sustained and could not therefore be capable of generated huge deposits of uniform sand.
For some empirical evidence, I live on the great Missoula flood plain. This was a cataclysmic event that that sent a wall of water initially 2000 ft high at speeds approaching 100 mph across Idaho Washington and Oregon. The city of Portland was once under 250 ft of water from this flood. Incredibly there is evidence that this Ice Age flood event occurred approximately 40 separate times on a cycle of roughly 50 years.
And guess what? There is very little sand to be found, our beaches are typically of course gravels and large boulders.
But it gets more impossible for the "young earth model" . . .
In reading the above reference article i learned (yeah I don't travel much) that many tropical beaches are almost 100% of biological origin - consisting of fragments of marine invertebrates and even plants products.
Now consider the number of generations of animals that would be required to create such immense deposits. Also many of these deposits are in the process of being recycled as these shells erode and dissolve back to the sea.
Any YECers want to put pen to paper and venture a calculation?
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 9 of 121 (429361)
10-19-2007 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Doddy
10-19-2007 7:19 AM


Re: Let there be sand! And there was sand
doddy writes:
And God said, "Let there be sand". And there was sand.
But then there is the issue of biological derived sand. Was this sand created in the form of deceased little critters?
Also there is the issue of large deposits of sand where the source rock formations are suspiciously right next door. If God made sand out of nothing why does he so often make sand when the base rock is close by.
Hmmmm.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 11 of 121 (429519)
10-20-2007 3:20 PM


Ya I will keep that in mind next time I am on a white tropical beach....

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 12 of 121 (429708)
10-21-2007 12:53 PM


Flood Sand Production
I did some search and found nothing on the flood model for the formation of sand. I wonder what mechanism of the flood was responsible for generating the vast deposits of sand we have. The Sahara today consists of some 3,500,000 square miles of sand which in turn is dwarfed by the continent scale Old Red Sandstone formation with a thickness in places of over 10000 ft.
I suppose if pushed YECers would have to resort to sand being made in the creation week.

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 17 of 121 (431127)
10-29-2007 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by bluegenes
10-22-2007 4:30 AM


Re: Flood Sand Production
Bluegenes writes:
Lots of sand in the Sahara, yes, but it may have formed fairly quickly.
The desertification of the Sahara may have formed quickly (in geological terms) but the residual fine grain mineral material did not form quickly and still needs an explanation.
The Creationist literature pretty much ignores the sand formation issue (which is also noted by the similar lack of responses by Creationist in this thread).

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iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5915 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 19 of 121 (431135)
10-29-2007 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 2:30 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
Yeah i suppose that is how the YEC thought process goes except a flood does not act like a tumbler. Tumblers are specifically designed to constrain the material and concentrate the energy.
A Flood are capable of making sand but not the prodigious quantities that exist today. For example, large scale ice age floods such as the Missoula floods (evidence for over 50 reoccurrences and maybe 100) and the Bonneville floods did not produce appreciable amounts of sand.
The Missoula floods where large scale events. This flood deposited glacieral deposits from Canada all the way down to the California coastal shelf.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

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