Lake Varve Sediments and the Great Flood

Most of the heavier sand will settle out in about 1 minute. Silt particles will settle out in about 5 minutes. The fine clays may take 48 hours or more.http://education.usace.army.mil/...sons/8/sdemols8lv1-2.html

I believe the term liquefaction given water is a liquid and has an affinity to not compress helps explain quite well by this young earth creationists.In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Liquefaction During the Flood

Seems he is saying that water is near incompressible so mud behaves like a fluid sorting by wave action providing pressure downward which causes water to press up that forms thousands perhaps millions of varves in short amounts of time.So after the creationists world flood covered the entire earth you'd have all this muddy waters being sorted by the wave action while the flood waters still covered the earth.Then after the flood you should have kettle lakes continually sorting and resorting due to the water pressure pressing down and up thru the lake bed mud sediments that would increase the expression of say thousands upon thousands of multitudes of varves.You also have springs in lakes that is water pressing upwards through the particles add waves on the surface gently pressing downward upon the muddied waters of the earth based on the scientific evidence how muddy waters form varves naturally by liquefaction explain your not looking at annual varves but simply how quickly multitude of varves form naturally.P.S. I'm not a mechanical engineer but seems to be how that link about liquefaction answers some perhaps all of the questions how varves can form suddenly.

Why would not water lensing follow the terraine of the lake bed kind of like how you have springs which run among the hills, etc...? akjv psalm 104:10 The moon causes the levels of the oceans to rise and fall why would not this too not cause all your lake bed lateral lenses for these water columns to rise and fall(breathe)just a bit.Given water is near incompressible a little force on one of your many lateral lake bed water lenses would be an example of liquefaction like hydraulics pressing the particles apart. Is this what you and Walt are talking about? Awesome !!!!!!!!I mean water has real weight so it should have a real force in waves hammering down on the shores on your lateral water lenses that should hydraulically press water causing the particles to press apart in respect to sorting and resorting explaining multiple varves.The waves pressing down on your lateral water lenses in the shallows of lake beds how would this real force too not help the lower varves breathe water as they press water down to these lower lake bed varves thru your lateral water lenses?Is it these lateral water lenses that cause springs on the bottom of the lake beds to bubble upwards thru the varves?----------------------------------------------------------------------Earth tides, small changes in the Earth's gravity affected by the moon and planets, can also change the water level in the index well by as much as half a foot.RESULTS RELATED TO YOUR SEARCH | Southwest Research InstituteEdited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

In lake beds how are the springs recharging themselves if not like thru water lenses as an extension of the watershed?You have other forces acting upon the varves other than the water pressure hydraulically pressing the particles apart, you have humic acids that have an affinity to bond to near all the elements of the periodic table, their humic acid remains and methane gases from their digestion within this humic acid liquid within the varves.How could this not only help particles sort based on density, pressure, and this variance of hydraulic pressures upon the water lenses would spread apart the particles with organic liquid humic acids that too would become expressed within the particles micro-sorting, via liquefaction.I'm not sure if Walt is expressing micro-varves but does not humic acids bond to almost every element its not much of a leap of faith that they are part of the varves under the lake beds like the glue holding the varves together (colloidals, etc...)All you have in your varves is some scientists that found multitude of varves in agreement with the biblical flood. The muddy waters sorting and micro-sorting, etc...Like all I hear about these varves but no one has much if any information etc... Are they colloidal in nature ? what is the percent water content ? Methane content ? Co2 content ? humic acid liquid content ? is these clays humic in nature, etc...--------------------------------------------------------------------
About Humic SubstancesAquatic scientists have been slower in appreciating their importance, but now realize that they may constitute as much as 95% of the total dissolved organic matter in aquatic systems and often are equal to or greater than the concentrations of inorganic ions present.http://www.hagroup.neu.edu/abouthafrm.htmEdited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

I'll give God the credit for the granites due to the helium suggesting its only became granite 6,000 years ago... But Humphreys granites has nothing to do with varves kind of a different subject, etc.... If you want to understand limestone, granites, sedimentary rock, etc... you might check out the answers from genesis folk.Just look at like the Hudson canyon, the Amazon Canyon, massive evidence of water erosion on a global catastrophic scale but as far as the muddy waters in respect to lake varves thought that was the topic, like kettle lakes, springs on the bottom of lakes, how muddy waters in Walts 5 gallon jugs formed multiple varves simply by liquefaction.P.S. If you look closely at excavation through limestone you'll see horizontal markings. Are not these water lenses that Edge was talking about how after the flood waters receeded like say limestone particles lithified destroyed fine varve markings leaving the water lenses more visible, etc...Once the particles lithified you'd get sedimentary rock, limestone, but lake varves never lithified thus its not been turned to stone, etc...

Re: on models
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have no idea what Walt thinks on annual varves suspect he has not much of a problem with them forming after the biblical flood. You 14C dating being flawed because of all the movement under the lake, liquefaction, springs on the bottom of the lakes, Co2 and methane affecting boyancy, humic acids bringing more 14c into the fossil cellose dated, etc...I noticed you did not acknowledge springs on the bottom of lakes, so much stuff one has to not acknowledge for multiple varves from your perspective to make sense.I call that psuedo science or delusional science which is one big reason evolution should be replaced with creation science.I mean you have trees suspended in sediments were told are millions of years old yet the trees date thousands of years old, you have commerical labs fudging out 14c according to Baumgardener and the skinny the labs don't believe 14c should be their so they wipe it off as if it never was. Such lies to pretend the earth is an old earth, is kind reminds me of Nebraska Man.P.S. All you have is you say the varves are old but your disregarding reputable science. Do you have any evidence that humic acids are not a big part of lake waters, that varves are not collidal in nature, whats the percentage of water in the varves, did they test for concentrations of humic acids in the leachate of the varves taken, test for 14C in the leachate, was methane tested for in off gases, Co2 tested for, volatile acids, etc... If not then WHY ?

How are springs on the bottom of the lake being recharged if not laterally from the watershed?

When the flood happened the Word says it was summer in the southern hemisphere meaning it was winter in the northern hemisphere. So like where the glaciers melted in the northern hemisphere you'd find more glacial lakes like in minnesota and more exposed granite like in the Michigans upper penninsula.I'm winging it but you have granite uplifts like as in expressed in the rocky mountains (tetons jackson hole, etc...)like the Word says the hills were raised and the valleys lowered and this is what you see in the natural. psalm 104El Capitan Plateau with an elevation above sea level with near a mile of sediments covering these coral oil producing organisms beneath meaning it once was at sealevel but was upraised after it was covered in sediments.So you have the granite rocky mountains capturing the timber giving us the massive coal fossil grave yards and the sediment that could not carry the mountains but covering the massive timber all along the rocky mountains.The badlands look like severly eroded hills where did all these sediments go, etc... Its like the Grand Canyon if the erosion happened over millions of years where is the missing sediment that would be present if it happened slowly over millions of years.Its like the Hudson Canyon many times greater than the Grand Canyon if it happened over millions of years it could not of carved it but a world flood waters washing off the earth answers questions like the size of the Hudson Canyon, Amazon Canyon, etc....Actually the creationists appear to me to be questioning science where evolution seems to be saying this is it and don't question it, etc... Well if you have muddy waters compacting in kettle lakes then liquefaction can happen as particles sort due water exerting pressure on all sides of the particles. You have a whole host of biological and chemical processes affecting different senerio's, etc...For all you know kettle lakes were formed by a big chunk of ice floating in on the biblical flood settling into the soft post flood sediments and as it melted it formed millions of varves. I mean no one was there so lets test the varves what exactly is in the varve, humic acids, methane in the leachate, Co2, is it colloidal in nature, etc... With anaerobic digestion you'd have 14C becoming a part of the leachate which means you can not believe any data from lake varve studies unless you prove no anaerobic digestion Methane rising or water rising in springs from the bottom is not skewing the results.P.S. Don't feel bad that lake varves are meaningless thats usually seems to be the case when evolutionists put the cart ahead of the horse and call that science. Nebraska man, etc...

Earth Worms Likely when the earth dried sediments that lithified destroyed some of the varves your likely looking for, the earth worms resorted the soils of the earth, etc... The fossil record is stratified within the sediments whole trees going thru millions of years of your strata sediment layers.The obvious answer is your science lied to you in respect to millions of years. Fossils decay and if it has to wait for a million years to be covered its just a problem no evolutionists appear able to comprehend. However if they are buried within the muddied suspended sediments via liquefaction via a world flood then lithified they are preserved and thats basically our fossil record. How do you explain footprints preserved within the sediments if not by water lenses.Those horizontal laminations in limestone are obviously water lenses which are found all over the world(World Flood). When the earth dried up pressure and lithification formed some pretty incredible formations not the kind you find in some lake beds. Its just incredible, etc...What is your explanation for these formations if not by liquefaction.In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Liquefaction During the Compression EventEdited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

ha ha, etc... the valleys.... psalm 104 If you get a chance check out Kent Hovinds stuff think it was him that said if the earth was smoothed there is enough water to cover the earth with 1/2 mile of water. Awesome !!!!! that much water in the oceans. Apparently so, etc...etc... etc... Why, as the water rushed off the continents would not sediments be settling in log jams. I mean if you want to reclaim a beach you put obstructions out a bit and sand deposits as water velocities decrease as the waves base crash, it takes water and sand though like a world flood to cover our coal deposits. Ok, I'll bite where is the Grand Canyon delta? rotflmao !!!!!!! join the winning team become a creationists or at the very least the Intelligent Design movement. They all Rock !!!!! There the real thing, etc.... Water has real weight though agree it does not really move but on shore the base of the wave crashes it sweeps stuff back out into the lake. I'm still waiting for how you explain spring water coming up from the bottom of the lake, how is it being recharged. Please link the study showing methane was tested for in kettle lake varves and not found therein.P.S. It simply amazes me that you folk can not understand how untruthful is the theory of evolution, etc... In respect to kettle lakes icebergs floating on the flood waters is just as logical as any theory about kettle lakes out there like Lake Suisitsu how close to the ocean, etc... I mean you don't see a whole lot of kettle lakes in the southern hemisphere only the northern hemisphere and this begs the question. Why? The bible says the flood happened during the winter in the northern hemisphere and the missing kettle lakes in Australia begs the question how glaciers being long periods of time because Australia should of had massive glaciation like most of Europe, Asia, and North America if the world was actually going thru centuries of global cooling, begs the question why are these kettle lakes absent in australia. The answer should be obvious that something is wrong with massive glaciation of only one hemisphere, etc...Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

It all depends if the sedimentation basins were formed during the flood in a liquefaction state its like aquifiers once you pull the water out of an aquifier due to pressure it lithifies it collapses never again able to be recharged to its previous capacities from the watershed. Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

In respect to a kettle lake you have the topography like a bowl like say lake suitisu. I suspect more kettle lakes would have varves similar to lake suitsu only because of their topography in respect to how varves are being expressed do to the waves sweeping organics diatoms etc... from the watershed everytime you have a storm, so multitude of varves support the creationists young earth senerio because they are not all annual varves.I think here your looking that all are annual varves however due to the topography it more like a miners bowl as the waves roll to shore how would not the currents not sweep pollen clays toward the center to be expressed as multitudes of varves as they sorted by liquefaction over the years. When the flood waters washed off the continents until the plants restablished the earth you could only have the watershed contributing to the varves being formed so what your looking at is the majority of those varves are not annual varves the last 5400 years since the biblical flood no doubt contributed additional varves.The problem to me is you believe all varves are annual varves. Percy said particles sort by particle size all the time I suspect thats a truth all creationists believe however when geologists start saying all varves are annual varves they are stretching the truth but thats what to me is being done a stretching of the truth, etc...Everytime you would have a storm the waves crashing on shore would be sweeping organics, diatoms, etc to the kettle increasing the varves, but thats never considered going back in time which is part of their delusion because that would likely be problematic for all varves to be annual varves since the biblical flood.I think the problem is what is a varve here is a picture what is called a varve but notice its not a kettle lake varve but still its called a varve.File:Varve1.gif - Wikipedia

Your Word salads simply are an example of delusion perhaps I hit to close to the bone, some cherished bone you like to chew on, kind of like santa claus(a cherished delusion perhaps)?Conventional explanation by saying all varves are annual varves yet your camp interestingly not providing certain information of the varves: like percent water, colloidal or not, humic acids mineralization within varves, leachate (methane, Co2, volatile acids, humic acids, etc....is just a Word Salad to say those few ascribing its science or is it more shit you seem to trying to pawn off as science, like they successfully pawned off Nebraska man, etc...P.S. Some of us care about truth and not Word Salads, pawned off as truth, etc.. however rotflmao !!!!!!!!!!!Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.

You have the russian study of siberian tropical plants living in the yucon pennisula, all dating less than 9760 years. Then you have the purdue university study expressing the artic sea temp not air temp was once 73 degrees F. thats only approximately 7 degrees cooler than the oceanwater at the equator today. The links if your interested are on Razd correlations thread but the point is Greenland ice cores could not of existed 9,760 years because tropical plants were thriving up in the Artic circle and nothing older than 9760 years was dated by 14 C dating in the yucan pennisula.Its not as if the mountain of ice in greenland where the ice cores are taken is held up by granite mountains like ice capped mountains you might see in Seattle Washington, etc... The russian study and the purdue study raises questions how a mountain of ice could of existed if near tropical temperatures of the waters of the ocean even north of Greenland, etc...P.S. I suspect those stories that the vickings inhabited a Greenland are more correct than the scientific myths that greenlands been a mountain of ice for 100's of thousands of years.---------------------------------------------------------------------For the last decade, archeologists in Iceland have been studying a cluster of abandoned Viking settlements near Lake Myvatn, on the island's north side. Carbon 14 dating of specimens from the digs and other evidence suggest these sites were some of the earliest farms in Iceland.Not Found | WBUREdited by reversespin, : No reason given.Edited by reversespin, : No reason given.