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Author Topic:   Dangerous pro-choice extremists?
obvious Child
Member (Idle past 4115 days)
Posts: 661
Joined: 08-17-2006


Message 106 of 113 (444843)
12-31-2007 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Omnivorous
12-29-2007 10:19 PM


Re: Perhaps?
quote:
Actually, I'm an insolent old man.
That explains a lot.
quote:
You said something that wasn't true. I entered this thread for the express purpose of challenging that falsehood.
So you have no problem with wasting time on minor issues and completely ignoring the bigger, actual meaningful discussions?
Well, I guess when you're a insolent old man, whatever...
And we don't know it is not true, merely that it is unproven. Under your logic, whatever we have no evidence for does not exist. Therefore every new species we discover did not exist until we discovered it.
quote:
The truth is important.
From your argument, that doesn't seem so at all. Instead of discussing the issue of whether or not the ELF was terroristic, you completely ignored its other activities as if they did not matter. The discussion was around a subject you completely ignored. That's hardly a search for the truth.
quote:
My insistence that you admit the truth resulted instead in long rants of baseless accusations and insults.
Made largely by you. Remember, you called me a terrorist. And I will admit I had little fun using logic to show that if I was a terrorist, you were one as well. Seeing as you haven't responded to this, I guess I can still think and refer to you as a terrorist by your own accord. We're terrorists together (along with everyone else!)
quote:
And you still don't have the cojones to admit you were wrong.
No, I just don't have evidence that you'd find satisfactory. That doesn't mean that they haven't actually done it. Remember that simply because we do not have evidence of something now does not mean it did not happen/does not exist. As someone who reportedly accepts science, you should understand this. But I have made the mistake that people are reasonable here. I will not do so again.
quote:
You have no idea, child. I would pith you like a frog.
Interesting how you ignore the question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Omnivorous, posted 12-29-2007 10:19 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Omnivorous, posted 12-31-2007 2:47 PM obvious Child has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 107 of 113 (444884)
12-31-2007 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by obvious Child
12-31-2007 3:40 AM


Re: Your E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E?
but the point is that terrorism doesn't have to be carried out by a whole big giant group.
but yes. every single time you put on a uniform and go out to fight someone else, you have become a terrorist. don't you think their purpose is to defend something about themselves?
terrorism is not a distinctive idea. it really isn't. and naming it unlawful and not various other things requires serious mental gymnastics. if you're not comfortable with that, i'm sorry. the united states government has been a terrorist organization since before it started. our nation was founded on terrorism and continued it as a policy to the present day. we do what we want and we make sure we get a say in who gets in our way. the "evil" negative associations are merely cultural. we think they're evil because they do bad things to us. do you know how many people died for your cell phone?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by obvious Child, posted 12-31-2007 3:40 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 108 of 113 (444886)
12-31-2007 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by obvious Child
12-31-2007 3:49 AM


Re: Your E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E?
Do you consider the leveling of Dresden to be a war crime?
yes. just like the leveling of warsaw.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by obvious Child, posted 12-31-2007 3:49 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 109 of 113 (444956)
12-31-2007 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by obvious Child
12-31-2007 3:56 AM


Seen your kind before
obvious Child writes:
quote:
You said something that wasn't true. I entered this thread for the express purpose of challenging that falsehood.
So you have no problem with wasting time on minor issues and completely ignoring the bigger, actual meaningful discussions?
An unsupported accusation is not a minor issue.
obvious Child writes:
And we don't know it is not true, merely that it is unproven.
Are all your assertions so loosely grounded?
quote:
Sen. McChild: You are a Communist!
Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.
Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer!
Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.
Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent child!
Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist.
Sen. McChild: You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent child! Never mind whether or not the man is a Communist, let's talk about the threats all these Communists present to our Republic!
Citizen: Senator, you have offered no evidence that the man is a Communist. Your unsupported accusations are a greater threat. By the way, I'm an old man.
Sen. McChild: Well, perhaps I was mistaken about this man being a Communist, though we don't know he isn't: he could be, we just don't have proof. Everyone is as guilty as I say they are until you can prove otherwise!
But who CARES about the minor issue of whether I have evidence for my accusations?! You, Citizen, are a Communist sympathizer and an insolent old man!
Citizen:
Go tell yourself more stories, obvious Child. Hey, they could be true--who knows?!
I am content with my work in this thread. Rave on without me.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by obvious Child, posted 12-31-2007 3:56 AM obvious Child has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 12-31-2007 2:49 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 113 (444958)
12-31-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Omnivorous
12-31-2007 2:47 PM


I am content with my work in this thread. Rave on without me.
Wow! You were far more patient than I was.

"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Omnivorous, posted 12-31-2007 2:47 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Omnivorous, posted 12-31-2007 7:57 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2641 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 111 of 113 (444975)
12-31-2007 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by obvious Child
12-31-2007 3:49 AM


Re: Your E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E?
The link I provided merely cites incidents of arson or crime against abortion clinics.
I provided a link to the crimes committed by anti abortion wingnuts. I also posted those stats.
For your benefit:
Considering that anti abortionist nuts have killed abortion providers and employees...
wiki writes:
In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed 7 people, including 3 doctors, 2 clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[5]
* March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of the year before. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
* June 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003.
* December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in a clinic attack in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[6] was arrested and confessed to the killings. He committed suicide in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
* January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama died when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
* October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot dead at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
Considering that there is a 30 year history of kidnapping and death threats...
wiki writes:
According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[8] The attempted murders were:[9][10][5]
* August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.
* June 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton.
* December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
* December 18, 1996: Dr. Calvin Jackson of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second-degree attempted murder and sentenced to 20 years.[11]
* October 28, 1997: A physician whose name has not been revealed was shot in his home in Rochester, New York.
* January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson.
* September 11, 2006 David McMenemy attempted a suicide bombing of a women's clinic in Davenport, Iowa after scouting targets throughout the Midwest. It was later revealed that the targeted clinic did not perform or make referrals for abortions.
Anthrax threats
The first letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting, and since then, there have been a total of 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.
November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare on December 3, 2003.
Considering that there is a 30 year history of 91 bombings/arsons...
wiki writes:
According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[8] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[13] More recent incidents have included:[5]
* October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.
* May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000.
* October 1, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.
* June 11, 2001: A bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington on destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages
* July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson.
* December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year.
* April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device. [14]
* May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[15]
* December 6, 2007: Two unidentified persons set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Albuquerque, New Mexico. [16]
... why do you suppose that the FBI has NOT chosen to call this activity "domestic terrorism"?
The fact remains:
You said anti abortion wingnuts have been called terrorists. Provide a cite or shut up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by obvious Child, posted 12-31-2007 3:49 AM obvious Child has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 112 of 113 (445009)
12-31-2007 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by Chiroptera
12-31-2007 2:49 PM


Chiroptera writes:
Wow! You were far more patient than I was.
Merely a greater store of senile insolence...

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Chiroptera, posted 12-31-2007 2:49 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2169 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 113 of 113 (446506)
01-06-2008 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Hyroglyphx
12-29-2007 12:09 PM


bump for juggs
So dude, are you going to list all of those dangerous nutjobs in the pro-legalized abortion camp, that are roughly equivalent to the dangerous nutjobs in the anti-legalized abortion camp that you said existed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Hyroglyphx, posted 12-29-2007 12:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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