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Author Topic:   Neutral Education
Reality Man
Member (Idle past 1539 days)
Posts: 23
From: Ottawa ON, Canada
Joined: 01-10-2008


Message 1 of 34 (447691)
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


This is my first topic/post, and forgive me if this has been discussed before...

Personally, I think that both parents and schools should only teach kids the very basic things they'd need to lead a successful and rewarding lifestyle, and the abilities that allow these kids to make up their own decisions once they reach the age of consent, when they are mature and educated enough to decide on their own, without someone else imposing their beliefs onto them. In short, a neutral upbringing.

That's what my parents did with me; both of them have different beliefs, and never once did they impose any sort of faith or belief system onto me. Today I am a happy atheist, and it was solely my choice; no one taught me about what religion is better, or that god does or doesn't exist. I just "grew up", learning math, morals, physical education, literature, world history, etc....

I think that work for our world. Of course, that's just me speaking, personal experience and all. There'd almost have to be some sort of observer that would analyze my life and determine if there really wasn't any influences,.... But the concept in general, should work.

What do you think?

Edited by Reality Man, : grammatical error

Edited by Reality Man, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPhat, : spellcheck (Dont be Lazy )


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AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1697
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 34 (447700)
01-10-2008 1:36 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Phat
Member
Posts: 7527
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3 of 34 (447707)
01-10-2008 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


Reality Man writes:

I think that both parents and schools should only teach kids the very basic things they'd need to lead a successful and rewarding lifestyle, and the abilities that allow these kids to make up their own decisions once they reach the age of consent, when they are mature and educated enough to decide on their own, without someone else imposing their beliefs onto them.


Do you believe that schools should teach both scientific facts based on logic, reason, and reality and also teach beliefs as a cultural lesson?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5184
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 34 (447708)
01-10-2008 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


and schools should only teach kids the very basic things they'd need to lead a successful and rewarding lifestyle,

Somehow "the very basic things" sounds a bit meager.

I'm glad you learned math, literature, history, etc. I would have thought they went beyond "very basic things."

What do you think?

If your concept of "very basic things" is broad enough to include what you listed for your own education, then I am inclined to agree.


Let's end the political smears
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Reality Man
Member (Idle past 1539 days)
Posts: 23
From: Ottawa ON, Canada
Joined: 01-10-2008


Message 5 of 34 (447709)
01-10-2008 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
01-10-2008 1:45 PM


Both.

Logic and morals for the practical applications of life, and religious studies as a basis for understanding the world that surrounds us. The religious aspect though must be carefully taught. Time studying Christianity should be equivalent to time spent studying Judaism or Buddhism, or whatever. It should be taught from an anthropologist’s point of view.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7527
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 34 (447710)
01-10-2008 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:55 PM


We only have time for truth rather than information
RealityMan writes:

Time studying Christianity should be equivalent to time spent studying Judaism or Buddhism, or whatever. It should be taught from an anthropologist’s point of view.

Must we waste valuable class time discussing every little dime store theology that came down the pike?
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jar
Member
Posts: 24989
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 7 of 34 (447711)
01-10-2008 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-10-2008 1:58 PM


Re: We only have time for truth rather than information
Must we waste valuable class time discussing every little dime store theology that came down the pike?

Is it a waste of time to talk about what happened in Hawaii?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 429 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 8 of 34 (447712)
01-10-2008 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-10-2008 1:58 PM


Re: We only have time for truth rather than information
judaism and buddhism hardly qualify as "dime-store" theology. protestantism might, actually :p

as it is, i think religions which demonstrate significant impact on international events should be taught. that list includes, but is not limited to

protestantism
orthodox christianity
roman and non-roman catholicism
judaism
islam
buddhism
hinduism
roman/greek pantheon
animisms in their forms

with special topics on current conflics associated with religious affiliation, like the several very old traditional religions currently being targeted for extermination in iraq.


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Cat Sci
Member
Posts: 9712
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 9 of 34 (447724)
01-10-2008 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


Personally, I think that both parents and schools should only teach kids the very basic things they'd need to lead a successful and rewarding lifestyle,

That depends on what you mean by very basic...

Do you consider a Bachelor's degree to be the very basic things? What about a Master's?

Also, what if the parents think that a faith in Jesus is needed to lead a successful and rewarding lifestyle?

How do we decide what is necessary?

That's what my parents did with me; both of them have different beliefs, and never once did they impose any sort of faith or belief system onto me.

Some religions believe that by converting people to thier faith, they are saving that person's eternal soul.

Assuming they are right, it wouldn't be very nice to leave people in the dark, dontcha think?

Today I am a happy atheist, and it was solely my choice; no one taught me about what religion is better, or that god does or doesn't exist.

Assuming that god exists, wouldn't you want to "know" that she does?

Lets set aside the semantics arguments about actually knowing god exists, people.

But the concept in general, should work.

I don't think that it would not work, but I don't think it is ever going to happen. People are going to raise their kids the way they want to. And I'm not sure they can not help but impose more than just the basics when teaching their children.

Again though, that depends on what we're talking about by the basics. Its seems that you might be defining the basics as just lacking the imposing of any sort of faith or belief system.

With that, if someone just learns the basics, then what about when someone does come along and try to convert them to a faith? If the religion is "above" the basics, couldn't that make the person an easy convert?


Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"

He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"


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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2093 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 10 of 34 (447733)
01-10-2008 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


it was solely my choice; no one taught me about what religion is better, or that god does or doesn't exist. I just "grew up", learning math, morals, physical education, literature, world history, etc....

If your an atheists you should read a book written by one of the most notorious Atheists on the planet. It likely a must read by atheists to try to understand how one of the foremost atheists on the planet could recant atheism. He recanted because of the overwhelming evidence of Intelligent Design that proved to him that there is a God.

P.S. Notice how now the atheists are attacking him but he refuses to budge saying I may be old but its hard to manipulate him. He admits the book represents his opinion in spite of atheist insisting he did not write it, etc...

Here are som former atheistic evolutionists that recanted based off the scientific evidence becoming creationist.

http://www.creationists.org/switch.html

Here's another atheistic evolutionist that recanted based on the Hydroplate theory becoming a Creationist. In the beginning is an incredible on line book. If you notice no atheistic evolutionists have come forth to disagree with Walt Brown's hydroplate theory.

Recorded Phone Debate

For anyone who disagrees with the hydroplate theory (explained in Part II of this book), the recorded phone debate is appropriated. Anyone, regardless of their scientific credentials, can engage Dr. Brown, provided they have read the theory. For details, see page 401.

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind (Hardcover)
by Antony Flew

"My name is on the book and it represents exactly my opinions. I would not have a book issued in my name that I do not 100 percent agree with. I needed someone to do the actual writing because I'm 84 and that was Roy Varghese's role. The idea that someone manipulated me because I'm old is exactly wrong. I may be old but it is hard to manipulate me. This is my book and it represents my thinking."

http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/2/2007/12/31/antony_flew_s_there_is_a_god_the_authors

Edited by Tim, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 24989
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 11 of 34 (447742)
01-10-2008 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


Since you are new here,
Since you are new here, you should be warned that Tim, AKA:
Bret
Charley
Craig
johnfolton
reversespin
The Golfer
Tom
whatever
and likely a few other names, is simply a TROLL.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
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Beretta
Member (Idle past 2098 days)
Posts: 422
From: South Africa
Joined: 10-29-2007


Message 12 of 34 (447862)
01-11-2008 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
01-10-2008 5:30 PM


Re: Since you are new here,
Tim, AKA:...whatever
and likely a few other names, is simply a TROLL.

And your definition of a troll would be ....?

...Since you're new here, don't be in a hurry to make up your mind based on evolutionary prejudice -they are dedicated and dogmatic these evolutionists but also quite blind to very real scientific possibilities outside of their particular prejudice.


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Beretta
Member (Idle past 2098 days)
Posts: 422
From: South Africa
Joined: 10-29-2007


Message 13 of 34 (447863)
01-11-2008 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Reality Man
01-10-2008 1:17 PM


What beliefs?
both of them have different beliefs, and never once did they impose any sort of faith or belief system onto me

What were their beliefs? Did they actually believe them or did they just grow up pretty 'neutral' themselves?

I just "grew up", learning math, morals, physical education, literature, world history, etc....

Which world history did you learn? Did it start at the beginning or did they just take random historical events and teach it to you? What did they teach you about origins? Where did they say you came from? I don't really think there can be such a thing as a neutral education. Were you home-schooled or if not what sort of school did you go to?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Reality Man
Member (Idle past 1539 days)
Posts: 23
From: Ottawa ON, Canada
Joined: 01-10-2008


Message 14 of 34 (448499)
01-13-2008 8:01 PM


Thank you for this warm welcome...

Perhaps "very basic things" is not the best term to use... What I meant was teach people the main things we should and are learning, it seems to be working. But when it comes to teaching religion, nothing specific should be taught. The students should mature to the point that they can make their own decision towards what faith/belief system to follow. This applies to both school and parental teaching.

Edited by Reality Man, : No reason given.


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Reality Man
Member (Idle past 1539 days)
Posts: 23
From: Ottawa ON, Canada
Joined: 01-10-2008


Message 15 of 34 (448501)
01-13-2008 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Beretta
01-11-2008 7:15 AM


Re: What beliefs?
I would prefer to remain discreet as to what beliefs my parents follow, but rest assured they were not raised as I was, and they are loyal followers of their beliefs.

As for the history I learned, nothing too elaborate but I learned a good deal about the different great empires of ancient civilizations, leading to modern history. I looked at a lot of different books, whatched historical movies and dockumentaries, etc. I did not read the bible or any other holy scripts, so don't judge me too too quickly.

Edited by Reality Man, : No reason given.


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