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Author Topic:   Anyone else notice this pattern?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 1264 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 136 of 318 (450417)
01-21-2008 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by NosyNed
01-21-2008 7:15 PM


Re: Being Pummeled
Since I don't really get into the evo vs creo deabate, I'm not talking about those issues.

The Coffee House has a lot of issues that don't deal with evolution or creation.

There are times when questions or attempts to brainstorm are returned as battles.
That doesn't mean everyone responds that way, but there are some that are very battle oriented.

I've lost a bit of fur in a few. :laugh:

I am happy to say that you are not one who does that. :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by NosyNed, posted 01-21-2008 7:15 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

pelican
Member (Idle past 2792 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 137 of 318 (450419)
01-21-2008 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Granny Magda
01-21-2008 7:34 PM


Re: ????????????????????????????????????
Honesty is the best policy and I admit that I leave myself wide open on purpose. I want to observe the reactions. I'm having a truly good time and thanks for your concern towards my feelings.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Granny Magda, posted 01-21-2008 7:34 PM Granny Magda has not yet responded

Percy
Member
Posts: 17361
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 138 of 318 (450420)
01-21-2008 7:48 PM


My only comment related to the current discussion is that I don't understand why people wouldn't want to make it as easy as possible to tell them apart from loons who rave on street corners.

One more comment, I guess, a rhetorical question. If you write at a 4th grade level or lower and you're an adult, why would you broadcast that information to the world by joining discussion boards? Unless, of course, the goal is practicing your communication skills.

Alright, one more rhetorical question. What is it about some people that makes them want to not only discuss things they know nothing about, but even to insist, for literally pages and pages, that they're right?

Okay, I'm done. I feel better now.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19510
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 139 of 318 (450423)
01-21-2008 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Quetzal
01-21-2008 7:06 PM


Re: shoe on the other foot
... forced me to eat major crow and completely re-evaluate a cherished idea ...

Holmes did that to me on the concept of morals from first principles. Caused a shift in thinking that I'm still working on.

I've known instances of people on both sides acknowledging error, but it is rare ... in human behavior.

Thanks.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Quetzal, posted 01-21-2008 7:06 PM Quetzal has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19510
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 140 of 318 (450430)
01-21-2008 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
01-21-2008 7:48 PM


What is it about some people that makes them want to not only discuss things they know nothing about, but even to insist, for literally pages and pages, that they're right?

It's called the "law of incompetence" - incompetent people are incompetent to see that they are incompetent because they are incompetent. If they were competent enough to perceive that they were incompetent, then they would be able to change and be competent (or at least know enough to know that they didn't know enough to know, know what I mean?).

It's actually a corollary of the peter principle.

Incompetent people also do not recognize competent people for the same reason, thus your incompetent boss will never recognize your competence and criticize you for not doing things his way no matter how good your way is.

It's very annoying to those few of us who are competent ... :D

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : added video example


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 01-21-2008 7:48 PM Percy has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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nator
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 141 of 318 (450437)
01-21-2008 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by purpledawn
01-21-2008 6:03 PM


Re: Mulligan
quote:
I think it's rare for either side to admit error/mistake to the opposition.

How often does either side actually make errors, though?

If one side makes significantly fewer errors in reasoning and/or fact, then we wouldn't expect that side to "admit" to making many.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by purpledawn, posted 01-21-2008 6:03 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
nator
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 142 of 318 (450439)
01-21-2008 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by pelican
01-21-2008 6:38 PM


Re: shoe on the other foot
quote:
rahvin, we can only know what we know.

Er, no.

We can come to know more, and understand more, through the process of learning.

quote:
I am trying to bring to your awareness something that the intelligent mindset cannot comprehend. The mindset blocks certain information that does not fit the criteria.

So...someone intelligent is somehow not able to comprehend certain information?

Such as?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by pelican, posted 01-21-2008 6:38 PM pelican has not yet responded

  
nator
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 143 of 318 (450445)
01-21-2008 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by purpledawn
01-21-2008 6:46 PM


Re: Don't Consent
quote:
Unfortunately, since this is a debate board and opposition is the name of the game, it is difficult to just be inquisitive without being pummeled.

Not at all.

Inquisitiveness, I like. I'll answer honest questions from someone who truly wants to learn all day long, and if I don't know the answer, I'm happy to say that I don't know. I'll do my best to politely correct someone's incorrect information, even if they don't ask a question but instead are just wrong.

I think that most science-minded folks here are pretty much the same.

(Molbiogirl and Crashfrog are sometimes too quick to turn sarcastic, I think)

What usually happens here, though, is the non-science-types are often so very wrong, or are sloppy thinkers, or are simply uninterested in learning anything that threatens their preferred beliefs that they simply give any polite efforts the big F.U. in one form or another.

Sometimes it takes the shape of an abusive temper tantrum, sometimes it is repetition of arguments instead of addressing rebuttals, sometimes it is playing dumb in order to avoid addressing rebuttals, sometimes it is being coy and playing word games to distract from the topic and bog down debate over terms or intent to avoid addressing rebuttals.

In other words, they trot out all forms of dishonest debate tactics.

Is the science-side immune? Of course not.

Is it far more common, and obvious amongst non-critical thinkers?

I think so.


'Explanations like "God won't be tested by scientific studies" but local yokels can figure it out just by staying aware of what's going on have no rational basis whatsoever.' -Percy

"What we need is not the will to believe but the will to find out." - Bertrand Russell

"Man's greatest asset is the unsettled mind." - Isaac Asimov

"We not only believe what we see, to some extent we see what we believe
...The implications of our beliefs are frightening." - Richard Gregory


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by purpledawn, posted 01-21-2008 6:46 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
nator
Member
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 144 of 318 (450446)
01-21-2008 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by pelican
01-21-2008 7:27 PM


Re: full of it
quote:
If I wasn't here you would be still debating how clever you are and how inferior others are compared to you without opposition. You all jsu nod and agree with each other. That's not a debate. That mass mentality.

Um, no.

We science-minded types disagree all the time, and correct each other all the time.

Of the top of my head, I have had at least one argument each with Percy, jar, Crashfrog, Holmes, Purpledawn, Rrhain, Archer, arachnophilia, brennakimi, CK, Taz, Catholic Scientist, Asgara, Jon, pink sasquatch, truthlover, Ben, and Subbie, all of whom are evolutionists.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14021
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 145 of 318 (450462)
01-22-2008 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Percy
01-21-2008 7:48 PM


quote:

Alright, one more rhetorical question. What is it about some people that makes them want to not only discuss things they know nothing about, but even to insist, for literally pages and pages, that they're right?

I know it's a rhetorical question but the answer seems to be pure egotism and bias. The same egotism that makes Buzsaw claim to be an expert on Biblical prophecy - when he knows almost nothing about the subject. The same bias that made Buzsaw assert that an article on a penny stock site about hurricanes had to be accurate because he liked what it said - without even a basic investigation. (I don't use Buz as an example out of malice, it's just that he has provided the clearest examples).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Percy, posted 01-21-2008 7:48 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2176
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 146 of 318 (450463)
01-22-2008 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by nator
01-21-2008 10:17 PM


Re: full of it
nator writes:

Of the top of my head, I have had at least one argument each with Percy, jar, Crashfrog, Holmes, Purpledawn, Rrhain, Archer, arachnophilia, brennakimi, CK, Taz, Catholic Scientist, Asgara, Jon, pink sasquatch, truthlover, Ben, and Subbie, all of whom are evolutionists.

Damn, can't I even get an honorable mention for tactical disagreements? ;)


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon

The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by nator, posted 01-21-2008 10:17 PM nator has responded

Replies to this message:
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compmage
Member (Idle past 2960 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 147 of 318 (450465)
01-22-2008 2:51 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by RAZD
01-21-2008 8:12 PM


RAZD writes:

It's called the "law of incompetence" - incompetent people are incompetent to see that they are incompetent because they are incompetent. If they were competent enough to perceive that they were incompetent, then they would be able to change and be competent (or at least know enough to know that they didn't know enough to know, know what I mean?).

I read a paper on that once (Unskilled and Unaware of it).

Something that has always puzzled me is the perception many creationists seem to have, and not only creationists, that education is a bad thing and that it somehow 'closes' off the mind?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by RAZD, posted 01-21-2008 8:12 PM RAZD has not yet responded

  
pelican
Member (Idle past 2792 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 148 of 318 (450470)
01-22-2008 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by purpledawn
01-21-2008 6:46 PM


Re: Don't Consent
It amazes me how you can quote something as true because someone important said it. E.G
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
--Eleanor Roosevelt

I doubt Eleanor Roosevelt ever experienced feeling inferior and yet it is taken as true.
Have you heard of brainwashing, influence, manipulation? Believe me these all happen without consent.

This is the wrong place to look for sympathy, empathy, or understanding. It is a debate board. It's all about the battle.

And who do you suppose is going to battle for those who cannot respond in enough of an academic way that you can understand, if not me?

So it is best to keep your Achilles heel guarded and find your opponent's instead.

You think I haven't?

As Zawi pointed out in Message 3: Someone who is wrong about an issue can increase their persuasiveness if their writing skills are superior to that of their opponent's, giving them an unfair advantage in debate,...

Exactly!!! This thread proves this point. Those who are wrong believe they are right because they imagine they are superior in more than their writing and debating skills.

So if one is up against a good writer, they need to respond accordingly and not stoop to the personal.

Don't you mean if one IS a good writer, they need to respond accordingly and not stoop to the personal? Some comments made of those not as literate have been down right personal and they cannot respond accordingly, as many of these posts have pointed out.

If one is up against someone who stoops to the personal, one needs to maintain their distance.

Haven't you noticed? They do maintain their distance. There is only me who is a glutton for punishment and I do get pummled and one day the 'pummelers' will see themselves and stop it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by purpledawn, posted 01-21-2008 6:46 PM purpledawn has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Percy, posted 01-22-2008 9:35 AM pelican has not yet responded
 Message 177 by nator, posted 01-23-2008 7:38 AM pelican has responded

pelican
Member (Idle past 2792 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 149 of 318 (450484)
01-22-2008 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by molbiogirl
01-20-2008 9:39 PM


Anything is possible
molbiogirl writes:

Awfully hard to avoid when debating a creo. Abysmal ignorance of even basic biology (Juggs recently insisted that building a single protein requires all 20 amino acids!) is a goldmine to the sarcastic among us.

What on earth are you talking about? I am trained in biochemistry and perfectly capable of informed political discussion. I am trained in video production and perfectly capable of discussing the finer points of sculpture.

What if you educated folk are too educated to understand some of us?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by molbiogirl, posted 01-20-2008 9:39 PM molbiogirl has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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pelican
Member (Idle past 2792 days)
Posts: 781
From: australia
Joined: 05-27-2007


Message 150 of 318 (450485)
01-22-2008 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Rahvin
01-21-2008 9:46 AM


Re: shoe on the other foot
Maybe you are over educated and cannot comprehend that not all people comprehend in the same the way as you. Perhaps you could try a different way of explaining yourself that is easier to understand.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Rahvin, posted 01-21-2008 9:46 AM Rahvin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Rahvin, posted 01-22-2008 9:46 AM pelican has responded

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