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EvC Forum ⇒ Social and Religious Issues ⇒ Faith and Belief ⇒

What evidence is needed to change a creationist

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Author Topic:   What evidence is needed to change a creationist
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 10 of 144 (445006)
12-31-2007 7:19 PM 		Reply to: Message 8 by RAZD
12-31-2007 2:26 PM

Re: dealing with the wall
Forgot to close the first link.
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Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 63 of 144 (448808)
01-15-2008 10:24 AM 		Reply to: Message 61 by theLimmitt
01-15-2008 10:11 AM

No culture of Ethics in Creationism
Well evolutionists do the same exact thing. If they don't want to hear what a creationist has to say they just say that it's a lie or they through out a big fat PRATT.
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I think this really needs to be addressed.
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Unfortunately, there is no culture of ethics in Creationism. That is quite different than in science. In science, if you are caught fudging data or repeating things that have been falsified, you are sanctioned.
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That is NOT true in Creationism.
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The reason there are such things as PRATTs, Points Refuted a Thousand Times, is that lack of Ethics mentioned above. Those folk marketing Creationism simply do not acknowledge things that have been refuted and continue to post them on their sites. Unsuspecting folk then pick such things up as though they had any merit and charge in here thinking they are armed only to find out all they have are blanks.
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Until Creationism develops some culture of Ethics and makes sites remove all the PRATTs, what you describe will continue.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 66 of 144 (448816)
01-15-2008 10:43 AM 		Reply to: Message 65 by theLimmitt
01-15-2008 10:37 AM

Re: No culture of Ethics in Creationism
However science does not prove something, there is always tentativity. But certainly things in the past CAN be determined with a very high degree of confidence.
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But nothing in your post really addresses the issue. Until Creationism develops a culture of Ethics, until the rank and file Creationists hold the marketers of Creationism to some ethical standards, there will be a continuing stream of gullible, ignorant Christians who read the utter crap such sites post and accept it as Gospel.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 72 of 144 (449054)
01-16-2008 9:55 AM 		Reply to: Message 71 by ThreeDogs
01-16-2008 9:52 AM

Re: For the sake of the argument?
You must have the chemicals, etc., to come together naturally, and you must have them at the right moment in proper proportion.
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Not quite. You need to have sufficient quantity and the proportions are determined by the chemical bonds themselves.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 81 of 144 (450558)
01-22-2008 2:53 PM 		Reply to: Message 78 by Volunteer
01-22-2008 11:17 AM

On the Big Bang
However that is exactly the position Georges Lematre warned against in his letter to the Pope.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 84 of 144 (450715)
01-23-2008 11:10 AM 		Reply to: Message 83 by Volunteer
01-23-2008 10:59 AM

On Natural Forces
Now why would Jastrow and Eddington admit that there are "Supernatural" forces at work? Why couldn't natural forces have produced the universe? Because these scientists know as well as anyone that natural forces were created at the Big Bang. In other words, the Big Bang was the beginning point for the entire physical universe. Time, space, and matter came into existence at that point. There was no natural world or natural law prior to the Big Bang. Since a cause cannot come after its effect, natural forces cannot account for the Big Bang. Therefore, there must be something outside of nature to do the job. And that is exactly what the word supernatural means.
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That is not quite correct.
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Those Natural Forces we can discover were created shortly after the Big Bang. That does not mean that what came before is supernatural, only that it is so far unknown. However the creation of the forces we can learn about was entirely natural.
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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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