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Author Topic:   Changes at EvC Forum
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 191 (450979)
01-25-2008 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Admin
01-25-2008 9:51 AM


NWR Suspension
NWR did not violate the instructions set forth in your OP. As per your instructions he cited specific posts which he felt needful to be addressed.
With the moderation thread closed there was no other venue of addressing these messages of yours. Unlike the other suspended members he followed your instructions for addressing the posts.
Perhaps you saw this in a different light but I saw NWR's message as a legitimate request for message clarification which would be helpful to the membership at large who were equally stunned by the suddenness of the action.
Imo, given the sudden unexpected nature of your action you should, as NJ has suggested, consider reinacting the priviledges of those suspended, some of the early ones having no idea that their action would be as serious as it turned out for them and the others being supportive protesters to action they deemed oppressive on behalf of their long time associates.
It appears that the solution to the state of the board is more related to leadership as you have stated than the symptomatic improprieties in the forums.
I've said the above to suggest reinstatement, reconciliation and revision.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Admin, posted 01-25-2008 9:51 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by anglagard, posted 01-26-2008 1:39 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 191 (451071)
01-25-2008 10:46 PM


Admin is to be credited in that he has begun to overhaul a site that was getting out of hand. He's doing what he considers to be what is needed.
We all have our opinions about what should or shouldn't be done and no doubt he's listening. He will likely go with some of them and not others.
Let's do our best to help him make it work. I see some changes that look promising and productive to the site. Perhaps it will all work out for the good of all.
I see Faith is logged in. (Hi Faith. You're not forgotten!) Perhaps sometime in the future some of our absentees will be back. Perhaps not. We Biblicalists can pray confidently that God's will be done, whether we or the others remain or go. I pray regularly for what's best for EvC, whether or not the answer ultimately includes my own participation.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 191 (451154)
01-26-2008 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ICANT
01-26-2008 2:36 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
1. Don't lump us all into uproaring complainers. A lot of what's going on here is sorting out, assessment, constructive criticism, helpful advice and questions so as for hierarchy and constituency to effect reconciliation and revision.
2. I'm glad Admin has more patience than you're advocating. Two of the biggies for Christians is longsuffering and patience.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 2:36 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by arachnophilia, posted 01-26-2008 3:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 61 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 3:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 191 (451164)
01-26-2008 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tanypteryx
01-26-2008 2:56 PM


Re: Brief Answers
Tanypterix writes:
Please try to find some way to bring the Old Timers back.....I need them. You don't want to see a grown man cry do you?
1. Admin wisely advocates revision.
2. Admin is in a position to assess the conduct of his constituency relative to tolerancy for the good of the site as he, the owner sees it.
3. Perhaps it behooves those who've gone and those of us who remain
to examine ourselves as to how we fit into Admins program. If one hopes to return, one might consider the possible need to adjust ones MO. If one hopes to remain one also might consider the possible need to adjust one's MO.
Having said the above, I don't think Admin expects all to do right always or to compromise their ideological position, but to work at keeping the peace and the site humming along nicely for the good of all.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-26-2008 2:56 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by arachnophilia, posted 01-26-2008 11:05 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 191 (451167)
01-26-2008 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by ICANT
01-26-2008 3:24 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
ICANT writes:
You don't think Percy has been long-suffering putting up with where we carried his baby in the last couple of months?
Go back, slow down and read thoughtfully what I said, ICANT. I thought the implication I conveyed was that Admin has indeed been longsuffering and patient, more so than you were advocating by shutting down and out.
My understanding of your statements was that you would not have done as Admin did if you were in his position.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 3:24 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2008 3:52 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 191 (451187)
01-26-2008 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Hyroglyphx
01-26-2008 4:32 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
NJ writes:
But make no mistake, if it comes down to it, I will inactivate myself -- which, not to toot my horn, would upset a great many people. Even my enemies would be disappointed.
My heart sank when it looked as though you were a goner. Many of us do indeed value your input. It appears that Admin concurs.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-26-2008 4:32 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-26-2008 6:59 PM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 75 of 191 (451201)
01-26-2008 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by nator
01-26-2008 5:35 PM


Re: Brief Answers
nator writes:
They all lean towards the dictatorial, Authoritarian mindset, and now it seems that you have embraced this way of solving problems as well.
Nator you have absolutely no evidence supportive of your charges.
True or false: EvC needed overhauling/revision.
True or false: Changes could perhaps involve posters in view of the owner/operator's goals.
True or false: The people you cited as dictatorial had no authority to effect the changes
True or false: The people you cited did not advocate suspension of anyone. Most if not all advocated reinstatement.
Please, Nator, don't become part of the problem Admin's trying to fix.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by nator, posted 01-26-2008 5:35 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by nator, posted 01-26-2008 6:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 191 (451267)
01-26-2008 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Hyroglyphx
01-26-2008 6:59 PM


Re: Re-Uproar
I see you as like most of the rest of us, quite stunned relative to losing long time members. I can't tell you how you should react. My only advice is to go about the business of working with admins and others to make a good site even better.
Randman is back. Cool! He hung in there and worked on improvement. Perhaps we will see some or all of the departed ones back by and by. Imo a couple need to make some adjustments in their MO if they do make it back, but they likely thought the same about me the two times I was abruptly permanently banned back yonder in the archives of EvC. I've worked to improve my MO, but alas, not many of my antagonists appear to think so.
I do hope you hang in here and continue to bless us all with your articulate intelligence and wisdom.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-26-2008 6:59 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Hyroglyphx, posted 01-27-2008 12:06 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 191 (451271)
01-27-2008 12:09 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by randman
01-26-2008 7:52 PM


Re: Randman
Hey good bud, a hearty welcome back!! I've been hoping to see this for a long time.
Now if we could get Faith back, the evolutionists would have their work cut out keeping the growing army of counterparts at bay.
Then none of us would have idle time on our hands to heckle bicker and fuss at one another over trivialities.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by randman, posted 01-26-2008 7:52 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by randman, posted 01-27-2008 12:12 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 98 by arachnophilia, posted 01-27-2008 12:44 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 93 of 191 (451273)
01-27-2008 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by randman
01-27-2008 12:01 AM


Re: suggesting considering this is debate site
Randman writes:
Of course, I would welcome reinstatement and have some ideas stewing for awhile that I'd like to bring up......maybe I can still post in Showcase or something, but I think I am pretty much restricted from debating evolution topics here. I just saw this stuff and thought I'd comment. Hopefully, it's helpful.
I know it irritates the heck out of hosts who's guests do a lot of complaining. Imo if you keep your nose to the grindstone and focused on the debates hopefully things will get better for you. I find it best to count the blessings we have here and work around what we see as obstacles for the most part. God bless!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by randman, posted 01-27-2008 12:01 AM randman has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 191 (451274)
01-27-2008 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by randman
01-27-2008 12:12 AM


Re: Randman
Well then anyhow you've got your foot in the door. That's progress.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by randman, posted 01-27-2008 12:12 AM randman has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 191 (451337)
01-27-2008 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by PaulK
01-27-2008 3:15 AM


Re: suggesting considering this is debate site
The point of having creationist moderators was to have them moderate the creationists. That's the only way to avoid the accusations of bias. But they were not doing a good job of that at all. If creationist admins are to be appointed that will have to change.
No, that's not how I understood it. How would that balance out ideology in admin? My understanding was that we were there also to call on some things the other side were getting by with and not being called on for. That's where the imbalance existed relative to moderating imo. Creationists were being suspended on violation sometimes which the other side were sliding by on. I was involved with some of that discussion especially behind the scene in PAF where much of my involvement as admin occurred.
For example in PAF I cited members who were practicing conduct which was not being tolerated by admins when people like Randman and others violated in similar manner. I often had to operate in PAF rather than being proactive on the floor because it would have been improper to moderate violations involving threads I was active in, me and NJ being two of the few more active ID type Biblicalists in the forums. That limited forum moderation for both of us.
Being a sole business proprietor and having numerous other responsibilities I just didn't have the time to put into the required reading necessary to moderate effectively. Mostly what I saw was threads I was interested or active in.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by PaulK, posted 01-27-2008 3:15 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 01-27-2008 11:25 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 191 (451352)
01-27-2008 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by PaulK
01-27-2008 11:25 AM


Re: suggesting considering this is debate site
Paul writes:
I don't remember anyone else saying that "balancing out ideology" was a requirement.
I didn't say requirement. It was for fairness and balance. Ideology factors in. Likeminded members have a natural tendency to favor their own kind. That's a known logical given which was my point. Randman weighed in on that as well. If you can't understand that you're not thinking objectively.
I do think Percy and Moose will be quite objective and fair. I'm not so sure about NosyNed, but hopefully he will as well. He's no-nonsense, efficient and effective so long as he will moderate his own ideological kind equally as stringently as he does the other kind.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 01-27-2008 11:25 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by PaulK, posted 01-27-2008 12:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 126 by randman, posted 01-27-2008 4:04 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 138 of 191 (451838)
01-28-2008 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by nator
01-28-2008 6:18 PM


nator writes:
So Dan is too threatening, now? He's on the list of undesireables?
Gee, is the fact that I am still unhappy with the pogrom you have enacted make my days here numbered too, percy?
Should I be watching what I say?
I don't think anyone needs worry so long as they do the revised thing of debating the issues. Get over the bickering and get doing the EvC thing the man has designed the site for.
Most agree change and improvement was needed. If we move on and get with the new program we can all make a good thing better.
We all need to come to realization that this is going to be a new improved sight for all members who are willing to conform to the changes.
It appears it's going to be a bonafide fair and balanced site for all willing to accept the improvements regardless of ideology.
New members are going to come for the debates and hopefully find a site humming along in a manner that makes them want to come in and participate. They're already registering. Let's debate with them and amongst ourselves in a manner that will be spirited, pleasant, edifying and interesting.
Edited by Buzsaw, : spelling

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by nator, posted 01-28-2008 6:18 PM nator has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 191 (451879)
01-29-2008 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by arachnophilia
01-28-2008 11:06 PM


Re: Indisensable liberties aren't for sale
arachnophilia writes:
i am starting to suspect that percy has intentionally thinned out the "evolutionist" ranks to more balance the debate participant-wise.
Perhaps some (I say some) have been have been too dominant filling up the threads with responses having little edifying and significant substance, too often with intent to antagonize.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by arachnophilia, posted 01-28-2008 11:06 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by arachnophilia, posted 01-29-2008 12:25 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 150 by nator, posted 01-29-2008 7:43 AM Buzsaw has not replied

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